Who is high enough?...

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: NorthStar

Sorry to everyone if i am very direct, but i wonder, What just "what" if all of this is just a illusion?

DON`T think that i am unbeliever, I am not! But in my life and somethimes after my astral projections, i am wondering my self:"what if this is not true?...hmm"

Does any one have this kin of thoughts too, or i`m the only?

Whatever i want to tell you really is this...

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Original post: doh

Thought about it myself. What if we are all someone else's dream. I would dig into some of the older topics here. I believe that this has been discussed before, but I can't seem to find it.

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Original post: NorthStar

What if we are all someone else's dream.

This is what i`m talking about...

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Original post: doh

This may be kind of "wet blanket", but what if we are. Is that really going to change you? If that's the case, the outcome is completely determined by factors that you have no control over. And, if that's the case, I say, screw keeping your arms and legs inside the ride at all times. Ride this thing for everything you can get out of it. But that's kind of how I view life in general *shrug*

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Original post: NorthStar

THis is great answer. I really like it. But let`s not close the theme, let`s heAR others what they say?

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Original post: Acid09

The way I see it there is really no way to prove "existance". Sure we can point to empirical data and "science", but what does any of that mean? That whatever existance is it follows some designated system of laws? Or maybe we're just perceiving things the only way we can with what we are given and yet have no grasp, at all on what truely is.

I eventually just came to the conclusion that there really is no way to know what existance really is beyond our meager understanding and therefore it makes more sense to shelf the topic and just live on.

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Original post: Draginvry

Sorry to everyone if i am very direct, but i wonder, What just "what" if all of this is just a illusion?

Of course it is. There is evidence everywhere, if you look for it. I'd be surprised at anyone who has studied the universe long enough who didn't at least concede to the fact that "reality" isn't quite as tangible as it appears to be.

This is a dream. The only difference between me sitting at this keyboard, and me flying around as a dragon in a dreamscape, is that I believe one is more concrete than the other. That is, me being a dragon, of course

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Original post: Anathema_Oracle

Sorry to everyone if i am very direct, but i wonder, What just "what" if all of this is just a illusion?

As my friends says derisively when I think I've spotted some great pearl of wisdom: "I had that thought when I was three" and to an extent, I think it's true.

The old French mathematician and philosopher Descartes pondered this question at length, a type of radical skepticism which can be expressed as solipsism and the famous latin phrase cognito ergo sum.

Some famous theologian made the observation somewhat to the effect: "If this rock is an illusion and I kick I should not stub my toe"- Needless to say he ended up with a sore toe.

I strongly contest that reality is independent of our observations of it, it is the observer that makes the mistake of misinterpreting reality, not that reality itself is an illusion.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: BeautifulEvil

I think this is all some kind of a collective illusion being impressed on some kind of formless void.

Not only is reality an illusion, but the idea of believing that reality is an illusion is also an illusion. In this way, there is no real way to understand reality through our everyday consciousness.

I think reality is beyond reason, beyond understanding, and beyond wisdom. The definition, and therefore the impression, changes between one thought and another.

This leads me to my next observation, nothing is the truth.

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Original post: Arresta

I didn't for one minute think any of it real!!!

I really hate people telling me to "get real" or "come down to Earth"
Whose real? Your "real" or mine??
My real is so far away from most peoples "real" that it is possibly totally unreal!

Whose got the best real here?
Is it really good?

Nothing is real it is all slants and angles.

I have a good seat.

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Original post: BeautifulEvil

I have a good seat.

Many watch the game, but few play the game.

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Original post: Josh The Lost

[QUOTE=Arresta;308032] Nothing is real it is all slants and angles. I have a good seat.[/QUOTE]

I concure, you do have a good seat.

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Original post: Draginvry

[QUOTE=Anathema_Oracle;307996]
Some famous theologian made the observation somewhat to the effect: "If this rock is an illusion and I kick I should not stub my toe"- Needless to say he ended up with a sore toe.[/QUOTE]

Your famous theologian failed to notice that when he kicks, he will still have the illusion of stubbing his toe, accompanied by the illusion of pain.

People really need to study this stuff more thoroughly befoing going around and kicking boulders.

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Original post: BeautifulEvil

Your famous theologian failed to notice that when he kicks, he will still have the illusion of stubbing his toe, accompanied by the illusion of pain.

Bingo!!

So very true...

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Original post: Arresta

Many watch the game, but few play the game.

Very Good BeautifulEvil!!


You know when I'm on the pitch!!!


Rest is important for ones popcorn eating skills!

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Original post: BeautifulEvil

You know when I'm on the pitch!!!


Rest is important for ones popcorn eating skills!

I'm a multi-tasker myself -- I like to eat popcorn whilst hitting a home run!

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Original post: Arresta

You messy creature!

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Original post: Anathema_Oracle

Your famous theologian failed to notice that when he kicks, he will still have the illusion of stubbing his toe, accompanied by the illusion of pain.

Granted, he was only a lowly Bishop of religion. However, I think his point was very apt. Those who proclaim skepticism about reality through sense-data rarely, if ever, corroborate such concerns with good arguments beyond..."but it could be?!"

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Original post: atomant

[QUOTE=Arresta;308032]I didn't for one minute think any of it real!!!

I really hate people telling me to "get real" or "come down to Earth"
Whose real? Your "real" or mine??
My real is so far away from most peoples "real" that it is possibly totally unreal!

Whose got the best real here?
Is it really good?

Nothing is real it is all slants and angles.

I have a good seat.[/QUOTE]

Nice Arresta. I like it, clap clap. My thoughts exactly. The old Bert (Einstein) maybe got it all wrong, but I agree with him when he says "All is relative". And so it is.

So what if I'm in some giant's dream, it doesen't make me any less real - to myself.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Hairetikos

IMO, the concept of reality as an "illusion" isn't so much about denying its existence or its realism or whatever, but it suggests that it's a fabrication made up of "mind-stuff". Or what occultists call the astral light, or energy or whatever name you're familiar with. It'd be a grave error to jump to the conclusion that this means reality isn't "real" or that it can't affect you. It just means that it's not quite so concrete as we're led to believe. It means that we humans have a measure of control over our environment that the majority of the world will never know. Isn't that what magic is? --- Shaping your world in ways that aren't directly physical?

Social conditioning places "templates", for lack of a better term, in our subconscious, and the astral light conforms to these templates and manifests itself as what you would call your "life". Magic is the art of choosing which template you would prefer.

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Original post: 20AD

There are many takes on this.

Some of my favourites are:
The holographic universe:
http://www.crystalinks.com/holographicuniverse.html

In the Kybalion it is said that we are all created from the mind of god. Hence nothing is real, just like your very own imagination.

I can't recall others at the moment.
Good quote:
Nothing is exactly as it seems, nor is it otherwise. - Alan Watts.

I think if we call it an illusion or a reality changes nothing, excpet possibly how seriously you play the game.
It reminds me of a story I heard Richard Dawkins retell (I paraphrase): Someone had thought that it looks as if the sun revolves around the earth. To which the reply was; How would it look if the earth were to revolve around the sun?

I'm not a fan of the term game. Personally it evokes the idea of winners and losers and competition, which in turn may lead to other traits I try to avoid.
I prefer the image of music or dance or flow/process/tao etc... You just play it for the sake of playing because you enjoy it or you feel it's right. Whether it's real or illusory makes no difference if it fits.

All the best.
AD.

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Original post: BeautifulEvil

Hairetikos, that's a great explanation. I couldn't have said it better myself!

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Original post: 1911

I am high enough to believe I am.

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Original post: Enlightenment

I aks this questions a lot but never get a clear answer! How do we know this is not all just one big dream? :eh:

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Original post: Enlightenment

[QUOTE=Hairetikos;308344]IMO, the concept of reality as an "illusion" isn't so much about denying its existence or its realism or whatever, but it suggests that it's a fabrication made up of "mind-stuff". Or what occultists call the astral light, or energy or whatever name you're familiar with. It'd be a grave error to jump to the conclusion that this means reality isn't "real" or that it can't affect you. It just means that it's not quite so concrete as we're led to believe. It means that we humans have a measure of control over our environment that the majority of the world will never know. Isn't that what magic is? --- Shaping your world in ways that aren't directly physical?

Social conditioning places "templates", for lack of a better term, in our subconscious, and the astral light conforms to these templates and manifests itself as what you would call your "life". Magic is the art of choosing which template you would prefer.[/QUOTE]

I like this analogy