Original post: Bebedora's puppet
I'm saying it is based on the children of the moon path from some "tarot" cards my mum bought. They have thirteen "seeds" of the moon path and twelve "seeds" of the sun path. In the moon path there is: Temperance; Gratitude; Acceptance; Rejuvination; Attraction; Endearment; Inner Beauty; Confrontation; Clarity; Empowerment; Self-Respect; Harmony; and Compassion. I don't know much about the "Black zodiac" but it could help. If anyone wants more information on the sacred web ask me.
Dark Zodiac
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Original post: Beherit
Yeah, sounds like what the church would say. Crowley wasn't Satanic, he did though enjoy freaking out people by saying he was an "wicked man". He was a bit extreme for his time(Bisexuality, occultism, ect) however and that also helped with him achiving this image of a demon worshipper.
Yeah, sounds like what the church would say. Crowley wasn't Satanic, he did though enjoy freaking out people by saying he was an "wicked man". He was a bit extreme for his time(Bisexuality, occultism, ect) however and that also helped with him achiving this image of a demon worshipper.
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Original post: SquirleyWurley
I agree with the point that there is a potential in either direction, for the zodiac. I'd say there are many directions to go with something like zodiacal influences/forces.
To be controlled, trapped, or warped and lead against your true liberation, by any force, being, or power, would be an unhealthy direction, for example.
There are demons associated with each day and night, in Qabala, which if they are dominating you or tricking you, i.e., if you do not have mastery of them, can be a problem. To summon them invites a challenge to master them or be messed with. So it can be tricky to mess with the demons of the day/night, or with Goetia.
With the Zodiacal energies/powers, you wouldn't want to be controlled/dominated by even the side that is normally considered 'light' or 'good', would you?
Gnostic texts speak of planetary and zodiacal archons/powers that are perverse and ignorant. The point of Gnosis is to see through their enchantments or lures, and to be free of them, invisible to them, imune to their powers.
Much of estoric work can lead to transcending the negative influences of the planets/zodiac, or knowing how to 'work the system' or gain insight.
But it seems to me that some people glamorize brutality and ignorance and 'dark powers', as if that is more important.
I agree with the point that there is a potential in either direction, for the zodiac. I'd say there are many directions to go with something like zodiacal influences/forces.
To be controlled, trapped, or warped and lead against your true liberation, by any force, being, or power, would be an unhealthy direction, for example.
There are demons associated with each day and night, in Qabala, which if they are dominating you or tricking you, i.e., if you do not have mastery of them, can be a problem. To summon them invites a challenge to master them or be messed with. So it can be tricky to mess with the demons of the day/night, or with Goetia.
With the Zodiacal energies/powers, you wouldn't want to be controlled/dominated by even the side that is normally considered 'light' or 'good', would you?
Gnostic texts speak of planetary and zodiacal archons/powers that are perverse and ignorant. The point of Gnosis is to see through their enchantments or lures, and to be free of them, invisible to them, imune to their powers.
Much of estoric work can lead to transcending the negative influences of the planets/zodiac, or knowing how to 'work the system' or gain insight.
But it seems to me that some people glamorize brutality and ignorance and 'dark powers', as if that is more important.
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Original post: zeta.omega
[QUOTE=lokistears]Actually the Dark zodiac is a creation of Dark Castle entertainment (The people who brought you such wonderful horror movies as Thirteen Ghosts and House of Wax). They are a complete fabrication, but are based loosely on the teachings and beliefs of Alister Crowley, a noted dark magician /lunatic who studies black magic quite some time ago.
Crowley was quite an interesting man, from what I understand (you can purchase memorize on his life and beliefs at a local borders or Barns and nobles). His belief was that magic was a dark art, given to those worthy of it by the devil himself and that to attain absolute spiritual enlightenment one would have to go through blood sacrifices as well as several other dealings in order to attain it. He had a cult of followers, several of which were never heard from once they entered Crowleyâ??s home. Most beliefs in dark witchcraft are based off of the works of the man (as well as several good horror movies, Mask of the red Death which was based on the outbreak of the plague I believe also had deep rooted feelers into the perceived live of Mr. Crowley.)
As for the movie itself, the movie was created back in the seventies by the original creator of Dark Castle. I havenâ??t heard of the book, Iâ??m going to guess it runs along the same lines of the movie or even expands on the thoughts that are presented. Very cool and Iâ??d love to read more about it.[/QUOTE]ummm, dude? do you know a darn thing about what your talking about? Crowely was a Magickian, and yea, i'll admit that he was a bit nutty sometimes, but he was NOT a satanist, didn't scarifice and really wasn't that dark. Just a little nutty sometimes. And dark witchcraft? no offense, the isnt anything such as black magick or black/dark witchcraft in the way your talking about it. All witchcraft, magick and occult activities are nutrel. It's the intent to which they are used that makes them evil, not what the means are. the distinction between black, white and grey magick is an illusion to simplify concepts for beginners to the occult world, they have no reality. I can invoke lucifer if I want to and work with his power to heal someone (remember, Lucifer is a fallen angel, and the herald of dawn. He has the power to heal.). Was that black magick? Well, I didn't harm anything except the illness I healed. And I used a "Dark" Diety to do it. So now that thats clear, i should point out, most of the practices of any magickal group are based on the nineteenth century occult order, the Golden Dawn. Thats where Crowley got a lot of his work too, though he did practice his own form after ejection from the order. All of the teaching of the order are based in the Kabbalah, Jewish Mysticsim. That means they worship God, not the devil. And as for Witchcraft, Witches dont even believe in the existance of a devil, much less worship him. Crowley, as I have heard, only ever killed one thing, a couple of doves were slain to provide energy for a spirit to manifest out in the desert. (I dont know the detail well, so someone more informed, please correct any of my mistakes.) That same instance is the time that Crowely for some reason steped into the Triangle of Manifestation, rather than remaining in the protective circle, and became possesed for a time by the spirit. When he was safely returned to the circle, some sources claim that he had aged considerable and his work suffered from that point on.
And yes, Crowely was into drugs and sex a lot, but if you think it affected him much, your dead wrong. From what I understand, up untill the day he died he was extreamly intellegent, clear, consice and alive.
Was Crowely a bit nutty, yea, I'll give him that. But the line between genius and insanity is razor thin, so I can forgive him if he crossed it sometimes. He contributed a great deal to the practice of magick. There is no true occultist that does not know some crowley. But was not a "Black Magician" or a "Devil Worshiper" or anything like that.
anything I'm wrong on, feel free to correct me, I'm not that great in my knowledge as to be infallable. all the best, Zeta.
Btw, even if the Dark Zodiac isn't a real concept right now, no reason we cant make it a real one. Invested time in somthing makes it real (i.e. lovecraftian beings, thoughtforms), so no reason we cant make it a real concept. (aside from the insane amount of work it would take.) anyways, have fun.
Edited by Zeta Omega for content insertion, 10:00am, Sep. 14 2005
[QUOTE=lokistears]Actually the Dark zodiac is a creation of Dark Castle entertainment (The people who brought you such wonderful horror movies as Thirteen Ghosts and House of Wax). They are a complete fabrication, but are based loosely on the teachings and beliefs of Alister Crowley, a noted dark magician /lunatic who studies black magic quite some time ago.
Crowley was quite an interesting man, from what I understand (you can purchase memorize on his life and beliefs at a local borders or Barns and nobles). His belief was that magic was a dark art, given to those worthy of it by the devil himself and that to attain absolute spiritual enlightenment one would have to go through blood sacrifices as well as several other dealings in order to attain it. He had a cult of followers, several of which were never heard from once they entered Crowleyâ??s home. Most beliefs in dark witchcraft are based off of the works of the man (as well as several good horror movies, Mask of the red Death which was based on the outbreak of the plague I believe also had deep rooted feelers into the perceived live of Mr. Crowley.)
As for the movie itself, the movie was created back in the seventies by the original creator of Dark Castle. I havenâ??t heard of the book, Iâ??m going to guess it runs along the same lines of the movie or even expands on the thoughts that are presented. Very cool and Iâ??d love to read more about it.[/QUOTE]ummm, dude? do you know a darn thing about what your talking about? Crowely was a Magickian, and yea, i'll admit that he was a bit nutty sometimes, but he was NOT a satanist, didn't scarifice and really wasn't that dark. Just a little nutty sometimes. And dark witchcraft? no offense, the isnt anything such as black magick or black/dark witchcraft in the way your talking about it. All witchcraft, magick and occult activities are nutrel. It's the intent to which they are used that makes them evil, not what the means are. the distinction between black, white and grey magick is an illusion to simplify concepts for beginners to the occult world, they have no reality. I can invoke lucifer if I want to and work with his power to heal someone (remember, Lucifer is a fallen angel, and the herald of dawn. He has the power to heal.). Was that black magick? Well, I didn't harm anything except the illness I healed. And I used a "Dark" Diety to do it. So now that thats clear, i should point out, most of the practices of any magickal group are based on the nineteenth century occult order, the Golden Dawn. Thats where Crowley got a lot of his work too, though he did practice his own form after ejection from the order. All of the teaching of the order are based in the Kabbalah, Jewish Mysticsim. That means they worship God, not the devil. And as for Witchcraft, Witches dont even believe in the existance of a devil, much less worship him. Crowley, as I have heard, only ever killed one thing, a couple of doves were slain to provide energy for a spirit to manifest out in the desert. (I dont know the detail well, so someone more informed, please correct any of my mistakes.) That same instance is the time that Crowely for some reason steped into the Triangle of Manifestation, rather than remaining in the protective circle, and became possesed for a time by the spirit. When he was safely returned to the circle, some sources claim that he had aged considerable and his work suffered from that point on.
And yes, Crowely was into drugs and sex a lot, but if you think it affected him much, your dead wrong. From what I understand, up untill the day he died he was extreamly intellegent, clear, consice and alive.
Was Crowely a bit nutty, yea, I'll give him that. But the line between genius and insanity is razor thin, so I can forgive him if he crossed it sometimes. He contributed a great deal to the practice of magick. There is no true occultist that does not know some crowley. But was not a "Black Magician" or a "Devil Worshiper" or anything like that.
anything I'm wrong on, feel free to correct me, I'm not that great in my knowledge as to be infallable. all the best, Zeta.
Btw, even if the Dark Zodiac isn't a real concept right now, no reason we cant make it a real one. Invested time in somthing makes it real (i.e. lovecraftian beings, thoughtforms), so no reason we cant make it a real concept. (aside from the insane amount of work it would take.) anyways, have fun.
Edited by Zeta Omega for content insertion, 10:00am, Sep. 14 2005
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Original post: Michael Baselio
The only reason you didn't recive so many replies concerning Crowley is because you did not post in Ceremonal Magic Forum (this one does not attract many Thelemites).
If you really want to understand him better I would suggest that you actually study thelema and talk to people who are Thelemites.
In the age of Pisces he was one of the first. It was ordered to him by higher seats of power to break all dogmas ,and to push the limits.People don't understand him because of the things that he did.
Some things can not be explained in two short sentences...
The only reason you didn't recive so many replies concerning Crowley is because you did not post in Ceremonal Magic Forum (this one does not attract many Thelemites).
If you really want to understand him better I would suggest that you actually study thelema and talk to people who are Thelemites.
In the age of Pisces he was one of the first. It was ordered to him by higher seats of power to break all dogmas ,and to push the limits.People don't understand him because of the things that he did.
Some things can not be explained in two short sentences...
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Original post: Acid09
Sorry to be off topic I just wanted to interject an interesting factoid there!
Don't forget he was a total drug addict and his book about it, the title eludes me- "Diary of a Drug Fiend" I believe, is actually almost the same thing psychologist researched and put into a book that is given to all alcoholics annonymous members to this day. Crowley had figured this stuff out on his own and decades before these "experts" finally cought up and wrote a book called "the blue book" (I'm not sure of it either as I don't have it in front of me). While spirituality is a major part of recovering addicts Crowley was not given any credit. I doubt if the researchers even knew about him. They could have learned so much from him. Ignorance = bliss? Not if you're a drug addict trying to recover. It may also have to do with the fact the book written by the "professionals" had no other road to religion other than Christianity but thats speculation.ummm, dude? do you know a darn thing about what your talking about? Crowely was a Magickian, and yea, i'll admit that he was a bit nutty sometimes, but he was NOT a satanist, didn't scarifice and really wasn't that dark. Just a little nutty sometimes. And dark witchcraft? no offense, the isnt anything such as black magick or black/dark witchcraft in the way your talking about it. All witchcraft, magick and occult activities are nutrel.
Sorry to be off topic I just wanted to interject an interesting factoid there!
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Original post: Frater V.V.L
Ave!
A while ago I went on a hunt for the black zodiac,...it just seems that it is the negative aspect of each sign.....
-Die Luna
-VVL
Ave!
A while ago I went on a hunt for the black zodiac,...it just seems that it is the negative aspect of each sign.....
-Die Luna
-VVL
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Original post: zeta.omega
[QUOTE=Frater V.V.L]Ave!
A while ago I went on a hunt for the black zodiac,...it just seems that it is the negative aspect of each sign.....
-Die Luna
-VVL[/QUOTE]I think that it was an attempt by the author of 13 ghosts to make a "Dark" or negative side of each sign, but the author might have known that each of the signs has many negative aspects as well as positive ones. There is a book (The Dark Zodiac) that examines the negative aspects in depth of each sign in turn. I think that having the book to write made the need for a "different" version of each sign that was negative very clear, but I still think that each sign was based on the first zodiac (I have yet to figure out which attributed better to the corraspondances, the Chinese or Western versions). The Withered Lover, for example, might be negative Cancer, as my one aquaintance pointed out to me. The Black Zodiac, as it truely exists, is just a differently named and seperated version of the regular, dark aspects of the real zodiac. At least that is my understanding as it is now. I could, however, be completely wrong. :-)
Edited by Zeta on September 19, 2005 at 7:56AM for Grammer.
[QUOTE=Frater V.V.L]Ave!
A while ago I went on a hunt for the black zodiac,...it just seems that it is the negative aspect of each sign.....
-Die Luna
-VVL[/QUOTE]I think that it was an attempt by the author of 13 ghosts to make a "Dark" or negative side of each sign, but the author might have known that each of the signs has many negative aspects as well as positive ones. There is a book (The Dark Zodiac) that examines the negative aspects in depth of each sign in turn. I think that having the book to write made the need for a "different" version of each sign that was negative very clear, but I still think that each sign was based on the first zodiac (I have yet to figure out which attributed better to the corraspondances, the Chinese or Western versions). The Withered Lover, for example, might be negative Cancer, as my one aquaintance pointed out to me. The Black Zodiac, as it truely exists, is just a differently named and seperated version of the regular, dark aspects of the real zodiac. At least that is my understanding as it is now. I could, however, be completely wrong. :-)
Edited by Zeta on September 19, 2005 at 7:56AM for Grammer.
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Original post: enki360
I don't think I need to say too much about Crowley, there are some good responses to him being a "satanist."
IMHO, Crowley was two things: an occult scientist, on par with people like John Dee and Paracelsus; and he was a showman. A comedian who loved to screw with stodgy British society. Declaring himself the Great Beast 666 was just a great publicity stunt. As for sacrificing "children" he did indeed do that, but he was referring to what the great mage Peter Griffin calls "knuckle children" (masturbation). Crowley did drugs, but they were just becoming widely available for Europeans at that time and he did detailed experiments with consciousness. Peyote, coca, and psilocybin mushrooms from across the sea, opium and hashish from Asia. Freud was a total cokehead, Poe and other writers were big on opium, but their drug use does not invalidate their work.
On the subject of the black zodiac, I have found no reference to it in the hundreds of astrology books in my library. It is most likely created in the story 13 ghosts. I can find no prior reference. There are dark sides to all the zodiac signs, but there is no formal dark zodiac as such. As for farfanewgan's admonitions, I wouldn't worry about that too much. There are much darker things that threaten mankind than zodiacs. Infrazael Draennonssraav's advice is good, go with it and be creative. What the hell, look what creative people did with Lovecraft's Necronomicon.
I don't think I need to say too much about Crowley, there are some good responses to him being a "satanist."
IMHO, Crowley was two things: an occult scientist, on par with people like John Dee and Paracelsus; and he was a showman. A comedian who loved to screw with stodgy British society. Declaring himself the Great Beast 666 was just a great publicity stunt. As for sacrificing "children" he did indeed do that, but he was referring to what the great mage Peter Griffin calls "knuckle children" (masturbation). Crowley did drugs, but they were just becoming widely available for Europeans at that time and he did detailed experiments with consciousness. Peyote, coca, and psilocybin mushrooms from across the sea, opium and hashish from Asia. Freud was a total cokehead, Poe and other writers were big on opium, but their drug use does not invalidate their work.
On the subject of the black zodiac, I have found no reference to it in the hundreds of astrology books in my library. It is most likely created in the story 13 ghosts. I can find no prior reference. There are dark sides to all the zodiac signs, but there is no formal dark zodiac as such. As for farfanewgan's admonitions, I wouldn't worry about that too much. There are much darker things that threaten mankind than zodiacs. Infrazael Draennonssraav's advice is good, go with it and be creative. What the hell, look what creative people did with Lovecraft's Necronomicon.
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Original post: WindigoXXVIII
the only dark zodiac I know if is the Zodiac Killer and his weird cryptograms. The puzzle of his radian angled murder sites is more worth the trouble than some horror movie or fiction book.
*why is Crowley even in this discussion?
the only dark zodiac I know if is the Zodiac Killer and his weird cryptograms. The puzzle of his radian angled murder sites is more worth the trouble than some horror movie or fiction book.
*why is Crowley even in this discussion?
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Original post: enki360
*why is Crowley even in this discussion?
There was an earlier post labeling Crowley a satanist, and a sub-thread developed. A short discussion on a fictional dark zodiac that was stated to be loosely based on Crowley's work. I think we can leave him out of this now, unless someone finds relevance.
*why is Crowley even in this discussion?
There was an earlier post labeling Crowley a satanist, and a sub-thread developed. A short discussion on a fictional dark zodiac that was stated to be loosely based on Crowley's work. I think we can leave him out of this now, unless someone finds relevance.
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Original post: stephaniek1sses
I came across this forum,researching the black zodiac. Here is a link to a website about the dark side of one's sign. So these are perhaps our moon sign? For me,my dark side is true...I'm a Piscean.
http://www.psychics.co.uk/starsign/star ... -dark.html
I came across this forum,researching the black zodiac. Here is a link to a website about the dark side of one's sign. So these are perhaps our moon sign? For me,my dark side is true...I'm a Piscean.
http://www.psychics.co.uk/starsign/star ... -dark.html
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Original post: Rin Daemoko
Shiny! Thanks for the link!
Shiny! Thanks for the link!
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Original post: Dhesyca
Moon signs aren't exactly one's "dark side". A moon sign is just like a sun sign, except it was the moon that appeared in that sign at your birth. While the sun was in Capricorn while I was born, the moon was in Gemini at that time.
However, because the moon has both a light and dark "side" to it astrologically speaking (not astronomically), the moon sign also has dark and light sides. While the sun sign represents the face that you show the world (a projective side), the moon represents a your more secretive (receptive) side. The two enhance each other to show a more specific personality type than the sun sign alone.
In the moon sign, the positive and negative traits of a sign are more enhanced, since the light and dark sides of the moon seem to cause more opposition between them. Therefore, as a Gemini moonsign, I tend to be better at communicating and being friendly with people in social situations, but I also have a tendency toward sudden mood swings and getting "stuck" in my mind.
All the planets' positions in the zodiac are taken into account in a birth chart. Each planet represents something different, so that sign enhances the effects of the planet in your life. Example: Venus represents love, so whatever sign it falls into will effect what your loving, feminine side is like.
I've been trying to find a Dark Zodiac also since seeing 13 Ghosts, but I haven't found anything. I know for a fact that the zodiac shown in the movie was made up: it is great fun tho. The Firstborn Son was freaky as hell XD and I totally loved the Angry Princess. Interesting fun fact: the actress for the princess was actually a porn star.
Tony Shaloub sucked tho. He kept looking so bored! Like: I'm at gunpoint...I'm about to die. What's my motivation?....I get more yogurt later.
Any more questions on astrology, feel free to pm me. I've been studying it for quite a while. I'll also try to find the site where u can punch in ur birth date, time, and place and get a free birthchart.
Moon signs aren't exactly one's "dark side". A moon sign is just like a sun sign, except it was the moon that appeared in that sign at your birth. While the sun was in Capricorn while I was born, the moon was in Gemini at that time.
However, because the moon has both a light and dark "side" to it astrologically speaking (not astronomically), the moon sign also has dark and light sides. While the sun sign represents the face that you show the world (a projective side), the moon represents a your more secretive (receptive) side. The two enhance each other to show a more specific personality type than the sun sign alone.
In the moon sign, the positive and negative traits of a sign are more enhanced, since the light and dark sides of the moon seem to cause more opposition between them. Therefore, as a Gemini moonsign, I tend to be better at communicating and being friendly with people in social situations, but I also have a tendency toward sudden mood swings and getting "stuck" in my mind.
All the planets' positions in the zodiac are taken into account in a birth chart. Each planet represents something different, so that sign enhances the effects of the planet in your life. Example: Venus represents love, so whatever sign it falls into will effect what your loving, feminine side is like.
I've been trying to find a Dark Zodiac also since seeing 13 Ghosts, but I haven't found anything. I know for a fact that the zodiac shown in the movie was made up: it is great fun tho. The Firstborn Son was freaky as hell XD and I totally loved the Angry Princess. Interesting fun fact: the actress for the princess was actually a porn star.
Tony Shaloub sucked tho. He kept looking so bored! Like: I'm at gunpoint...I'm about to die. What's my motivation?....I get more yogurt later.
Any more questions on astrology, feel free to pm me. I've been studying it for quite a while. I'll also try to find the site where u can punch in ur birth date, time, and place and get a free birthchart.
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Original post: Yoshiaki_Abe
Does anyone have higher resolution scans of these "Black Zodiac cards" than the ones provided on the websites mentioned? Are they still available for purchase? Does anyone here have a set? They'd likely be useful if they were more legible...
Does anyone have higher resolution scans of these "Black Zodiac cards" than the ones provided on the websites mentioned? Are they still available for purchase? Does anyone here have a set? They'd likely be useful if they were more legible...