can the necronomicon be performed

[missminday1980]

I was wondering if the necronomicon can be performed without candles?

[missminday1980]

I was wondering because i dont feel like using candles. Dont wan the place burned down because of mysterious forcus

[everquest]

rituals have to be perfomed as instructed.

[brobdingnag]

This is a tricky one. Generally speaking, it's always most convincing (for your sub-conscious) to perform the ritual as instructed.
If you have developed reasonable skill in visualisation and mental enactment of ritual, you can perform the entire ritual in your mind: this DOES work. I guarantee it and it will take some patient practice.
I think the simplest form of working with the Necronomicon outside your mind requires the 2 white candles. However, you can do without the incense or moon phases. I assure you from experience over time and a wide variety of cases that the Necronomicon Spellbook does work even on complex cases. And it works very, very well.

[bajik]

the candles are used to help with the vibe. not only your subconscious but also the tone of the temple. with the right environment it helps create the right life to bloom. however i do agree with brobdingnag in time you will be able to perform it all in mind. but as for how far your are in personal spiritual and mental growth it is best to follow the instructions. your sort of tricking yourself to get into the right trance so connection to deities are easier to link with.

[Lizard1138]

This is a tricky one. Generally speaking, it's always most convincing (for your sub-conscious) to perform the ritual as instructed.
If you have developed reasonable skill in visualisation and mental enactment of ritual, you can perform the entire ritual in your mind: this DOES work. I guarantee it and it will take some patient practice.
I think the simplest form of working with the Necronomicon outside your mind requires the 2 white candles. However, you can do without the incense or moon phases. I assure you from experience over time and a wide variety of cases that the Necronomicon Spellbook does work even on complex cases. And it works very, very well.

rituals have to be perfomed as instructed.

You're both right, in a sense. The ritual is a mnemonic device for the practitioner. I would suggest performing the ritual as close as you can. If you are afraid of some mysterious force, you shouldn't be doing this. You need to be in absolute control of your mind and whatever you try to do you need to control. "Fear is the Mind-Killer", control your fear and you will control many things; not just magickally, but in normal mundane life as well.

If you are afraid of knocking a candle over, well then, that's a different case. I like to perform my rituals outside, preferably on higher ground where I can view Phoenix. I don't know about your geography but try to find a clearing of sorts and perform there if you think you might accidentally knock a candle over. Fire extinguishers are always good.

You will find that the more you practice any ritual the less props you will need in order to remember every bit of the ritual until you can perform it in your head.

[Fr IAO]

I think that the above comments are valid however the amount of mental concentration to keep all the elements of the ritual in mind at the same time is quite phenomenal.I have performed ritual purely using the mind an while they have a similar effect to the more "Physical" ones, the potency can be lessened by the fact you have to keep too many balls in the air at once.

Candles and incense are tools to slip into a state of mind more conductive to ritual, you should employ as many senses in a ritual as you can, this helps the mental/rational mind slip and allow you to access those states of Gnostic reality and altered states of reality that you need.

My advice would be to use all the physical props you can until you have the rituals thoroughly memorized then try them without any props, keep your record and check your results. Some people thrive with minimal props some people need a full temple set up to work. So try both and record your results and note what works for you.

Hope that helps and good luck with your working

In Gnosis

Fr IAO

[brobdingnag]

Fr IAO: I agree. It takes significant mental ability to get to that stage. I think for the simplest workings (as in the Nec Spellbook) it takes me 5-6 months of working with the "regular" (outside) setup. However, I have noticed that once you're truly connected with the spiritual's system's "current" it requires nothing more than invocation (sometimes while doing something casual like walking around). I must admit I have got this stage after working multiple systems (varying degrees of progress) for over 3 years now and that's not counting my 30+ years in mainstream spirituality i.e. religion.

To the poster: Yeah, it can be done in the mind but it's going to take some consistent (daily) practice for some months ideally outside with the normal, physical props. The Nec spellbook has very minimal requirements making it an excellent starting point for an initiate when compared to the more complex Simon Nec with the Gatewalking. I'd suggest you just be careful with the candles.

Best, Brob.

[Niponic]

Hello. When you say daily practice, does that mean that you can perform these spells over and over again until you get it right? thank you

[Lizard1138]

Hello. When you say daily practice, does that mean that you can perform these spells over and over again until you get it right? thank you

Yes.

[ΙΟΛΗ7]

I was wondering if the necronomicon can be performed without candles?

If you want to work with something so...so sophisticated,you most certainly need the power of the candle magic...you have to be careful with candles...their power is sacred...honor them in order to honor you.

[brobdingnag]

I was wondering if the necronomicon can be performed without candles?

If you want to work with something so...so sophisticated,you most certainly need the power of the candle magic...you have to be careful with candles...their power is sacred...honor them in order to honor you.

Missminday1980: Again, it can be done without physical candles but this means conducting the entire ritual in your mind. Takes considerable practice. Hey, the 2 white candles required for the spellbook workings are easily purchased and not expensive either. Just be careful about where you conduct your ritual i.e. clear your space of all easily inflammable material and you'll be fine.

As for the sacredness of the candles or not - it's not a big deal. What matters is you make the candles you use for the Nec workings exclusive by using them only for Nec work and nothing else.

By the way, after continued working since my last post I can assert that spellbook does work very effectively. 100% success rate till date.

[blackdove]

Isnt the necronomicon a fictional grimoire witten by H.P Lovecraft?

[ΙΟΛΗ7]

Isnt the necronomicon a fictional grimoire witten by H.P Lovecraft?

close enough !!!!There are many things to say about this book !!! Is there something yoy wanna ask about it?

[blackdove]

hell yes I do!

I have many questions about that book.I myself had "CHTULU CALLS".It was so real,and so explainable that I found myself doubting the possibility of it being fictional at all.Once a white magition told me that it was actually found by some group of people,and that they got cursed by finding it.they suppossably died horrible ways.

Is there a possibility that H.P Lovecraft claimed to have written the book in order to hide the truth?and whay about the opening of the seven gateways?can I actually perform that?

[blackdove]

BTW,I was wanting to perform the rituals,but it all seemed so complicated and dangerous that I decided to move to something a little easier.I have the hopes to one day perform the rituals,but that'll be when I have experience in other things.you know,rituals and grimoire experience.Its only best to be sure and go the safe way. [happy]

[brobdingnag]

BTW,I was wanting to perform the rituals,but it all seemed so complicated and dangerous that I decided to move to something a little easier.I have the hopes to one day perform the rituals,but that'll be when I have experience in other things.you know,rituals and grimoire experience.Its only best to be sure and go the safe way. [happy]

No need to worry as long as you work with the "The 50 Names of Marduk" in the Spellbook or walking the gates. I've never had any hassles whatsoever with them unless they try to push me to get to my goals: yup, I can be difficult for energies to work with [happy2]. It's the Ancient Ones (Chtulhu et al) that are supposed to be the "dark" side. Maybe that's why BlackDove had those issues. In any case, according to the Mythos there was distant past where the Ancient Ones & Elder Gods lived in peace and one of the 50 Names can help you access that state perhaps using that name first will help.
As for the complexity, it's no harder than any of the Ceremonial Magick stuff or the more obscure spells. Further, you do not necessarily need to meet all the requirements: improvise. It works just fine.
What I've enjoyed most is that it works regardless of my belief / negativity, lack of concentration, visualisation skill etc.
Best, Brob.

[blackdove]

what do you mean it isnt that complexed anymore?it kind of is.I mean,first off the sigils.the grimoire says that you have to do it excactly the same,and some cant be touched by the sun.and if you do fuck up in creating them,and attempt to use it during the evocation,the four guardians will slay you.its all complicated to perform.

but,we are all individuals.

my suprise is that it actually works,according to this forum.have you actually stepped into the astral gates?and what did the lords tell you?did you have to actually have to show them the sigil and plead them to remember mankind?and what about the evocation of the fifty names?which ones have you worked with,or even better,which ones did you actually speak to?

[Asmus]

Isnt the necronomicon a fictional grimoire witten by H.P Lovecraft?

Yes it is. I'm going to ASSUME that the book this man refers to is the "Simonomicon", a book written by a man named "simon" in the 1800's-1900's, I believe. The Grimoir isn't based on any... reputable magickal theorem, and doesn't offer a basis for it's claims (no research, much like the Goetia, but at least scholars take that one seriously and have analyzed it). I suppose it could still work for performing magick, however, but being an avid Lovecraft reader, I could never bring myself to do any rituals from a book based on the fictional book of a science-fiction author. Scientology, much?

[brobdingnag]

To Asmus: I've heard that too. Tried it - works. If you've tried it and had no results - fair enough. As for systems - I care nothing for them.

[brobdingnag]

what do you mean it isnt that complexed anymore?it kind of is.I mean,first off the sigils.the grimoire says that you have to do it excactly the same,and some cant be touched by the sun.and if you do fuck up in creating them,and attempt to use it during the evocation,the four guardians will slay you.its all complicated to perform.

but,we are all individuals.

my suprise is that it actually works,according to this forum.have you actually stepped into the astral gates?and what did the lords tell you?did you have to actually have to show them the sigil and plead them to remember mankind?and what about the evocation of the fifty names?which ones have you worked with,or even better,which ones did you actually speak to?

I was surprised that it works too - despite my having not one ounce of belief apart from being willing to nearly sleepwalk through the casting. I'm not one to give 100% - if it needs my 100% then I'll dump all magick and go mundane. I have 0 regard for anything that demands my effort 100%: we are not perfect and the reason we seek these things is aid of sort. If I do everything, then I'll trash all of it.
I think you're working with the full versions of the Necronomicon i.e. the gates. Start with the spellbook - it's simple and effective.
I rarely engage in direct 1-1 conversation with the entities though they share thoughts from time to time (informally, out of ritual setting).
I have not formally begun gate-walking: was advised to work all the 50 names first. Some kind of initiation approach.

Just one thing - there will be some kind of trade-off involved with every working so be a little thoughtful before beginning.

Of course, I do not insist that anyone take my approach - it's all your call. Do what thou wilt.

[blackdove]

by trade off, I asume you mean that they will want something in return,right?

[brobdingnag]

by trade off, I asume you mean that they will want something in return,right?

Not necessarily. Although you find that most grimoires (especially the older stuff) demands all kinds of sacrifices and special materials etc. These are more a result of:
a) Either the mage's own belief that he needs to make it hard i.e. to feel like he's "earned" it or something along these lines. Notice how hard it is to believe that something worthwhile is available for free. Well, it's wise to be suspicious in the realm of the mundane because it probably is too-good-to-be-true, this is not necessarily the case on the astral. Although entities might differ.

b) The mage (who might know full well that the rigmarole is merely for the right setting) might want to make a particular client or student "believe" better. Again based on the "I earned it" feeling.

c)Wanting to make it hard for the "profane" so to speak to work effectively with the energies.


Back to your question, what I meant is that when a certain course of action is chosen it typically rules out others and sometimes that surprises us. How one option knocked out something else we might have wanted. This is because we don't always see the interconnectedness of things and worse, because we don't know what we want well enough. The first rule is always "Know thyself" before anything. The interconnectedness part can be tackled by cutting some slack around specifics or asking the entity to point out key implications.

This is the trade-off I'm talking about.

I can't say what entities want or not. I would doubt they'd want anything because they are spiritual beings and you have nothing to offer them other than working with them, acknowledging them, allowing them to share knowledge with you etc.
I mean, like, what can you offer a god for instance - what's the point if you need to offer something. You must understand these beings are above all that. We humans think that they must be like us - in my experience with the 50 Names they are not like us i.e. they're not asking for some money, or gold etc. They're happy that you work with them.

[blackdove]

interesting last point.

not so long ago I was talking to a white mage(magickan from the bright side),and he told me otherwise-

"in order to obtain something from the spirits,you must give them something in return.nothing in this world is free.whether a favor in return,blood,sharing your body ect.the spirit world is like a gang in some ways.if you borrow money from a drug-deeler,and you pay him back,its not over.they are going to also want a favour done in return.like delivering drugs.blood offerings is another of my points.a spirit can make a body out of blood,but it takes so much of it.now sharing your body-in the spirit world,nothing is fun to them.they can ride a damm rollercoaster at a thousand miles per hour,and its just not fun.they can't eat or enjoy the many things we mortals enjoy.it is because they dont have a physical body to do those many things.so,in return for a favour,you can also share your body with them in return.now the proplem with this is that is that if you share it with too many,they might try to kick you out of your own body.see,the magick world is like a game.in order to play the game,you have to know the rules.this is why so many people out there end up getting hurt and in dept with the spirits,because they didnt know the rules.you think that the spirits are willing to help you just for free.again,nothing in this world is free,and what you dont pay them during this life,you'll pay them during the afterlife."

and this kind of opposes your belief of "working with them is what they want in return".this is all confusing to me.while some say that they are satisfied with just working with us for free,others say that theres a price for everything.

[brobdingnag]

interesting last point.

not so long ago I was talking to a white mage(magickan from the bright side),and he told me otherwise-

"in order to obtain something from the spirits,you must give them something in return.nothing in this world is free.whether a favor in return,blood,sharing your body ect.the spirit world is like a gang in some ways.if you borrow money from a drug-deeler,and you pay him back,its not over.they are going to also want a favour done in return.like delivering drugs.blood offerings is another of my points.a spirit can make a body out of blood,but it takes so much of it.now sharing your body-in the spirit world,nothing is fun to them.they can ride a damm rollercoaster at a thousand miles per hour,and its just not fun.they can't eat or enjoy the many things we mortals enjoy.it is because they dont have a physical body to do those many things.so,in return for a favour,you can also share your body with them in return.now the proplem with this is that if you share it with too many,they might try to kick you out of your own body.see,the magick world is like a game.in order to play the game,you have to know the rules.this is why so many people out there end up getting hurt and in dept with the spirits,because they didnt know the rules.you think that the spirits are willing to help you just for free.again,nothing in this world is free,and what you dont pay them during this life,you'll pay them during the afterlife."

and this kind of opposes your belief of "working with them is what they want in return".this is all confusing to me.while some say that they are satisfied with just working with us for free,others say that theres a price for everything.

In my experience, only the part about them not having a physical body (which in itself is a mere mass of energy when it gets down to it) is likely to be true. Why I say "likely" and not "definitely" is because we have no real idea about those realms.
Also, I think they enjoy themselves just fine. Remember, everything is thought. Biologically speaking without the brain there's precious little you feel in a conscious way - without it all is pure energetic reaction. Since the entities are beings I am pretty sure they're capable of enjoying themselves: in fact, if they can desire something from you, it is because they desire and that,as far, as I know is a feeling (of lack) at the core of it, so it must have a reference point to begin with. Even if they get pissed, the fact that they're angry means they feel.

I think they're perfectly fine without us. We have this silly attitude that they must be like us wanting something on our plane. We think we're too fucking awesome sometimes. The only thing they lack is an affiliated or associated status. Have you ever heard of the "helping high", people get a tremendous feeling of power and self-statisfaction when they help others. It could well be that, especially with more evolved spirits. For other, less evolved spirits, it could be the challenge or just rush of success. Again, long before there was money, pride etc. I think humans were still trying to do something "more" and that's for reasons other than the classic materialistic purposes of today.

Again, they do have their own agendas and styles but they're rarely interested in your blood. Hell, they could raid a blood bank, road accident victim or find some NDE case and possess him.
They probably do benefit from your energy exchange, when you cast a spell and act towards the outcome or ask them to guide you: there's automatic energy exchange there. Even this is something I've started to doubt because if energy is that important they would literally not be able to carry out some of the tasks I ask - but they do and I don't feel drained (except for the first month when I started casting for the first time).

I've found the Nec spirits to be benevolent towards me. Why not try something simple? A a couple of good names to start with are BARASHAKUSHU and ADDU.
They're fairly general purpose. Try a few simple experiments and see what happens.

Further, I think you're white mage may be talking about human spirits -I've never worked with those. They could have such tendencies having been "in the flesh".
The only way to know, from YOUR perspective, is to try something simple. Give it a shot.