I have no problem explaining evil. Do you?

[Greatest I am]

I have no problem explaining evil. Do you?

This will explain the presence of evil for you if you recognize that you are an evolving creature.

I am a religionist who does not follow or believe in Bible God but in a sense, the Bible, if read right, shows God as doing evil so it can be said from it's POV that we are truly made in God's image. perhaps the ancients recognized this and we have forgotten. Perhaps that is why their invented God has such an evil streak. You have to read the Bible with blinders on if you can read it and not see the times where God acts in a purely evil way.

As to natural disasters, they are just that. They are not evil at all. For something to be called evil or a sin, it must have evil intent and nature has no intention. It just does what it does thoughtlessly and without emotion. No evil there.

I have no problem with explaining evil in man as well. God or no God.

We are evolving creatures and animals. Animals, as they evolve have only two choices they can make while living. Cooperate or compete. Cooperation can be seen as good and competing can be seen as evil. That is how we normally see things.

We also have no choice in this. We will and have to do one or the other and we usually do some of both every day whether we realize it or not.
This was also recognized in the past although they did not see evolution the way we see it today. They were right in saying that all men are born with evil in them but the religious accentuate the evil and not the good because evil brings in more $$$ and creates a dependence on the clergy as our $$$ are supposed to buy us forgiveness and a slot in heaven.

Religions, for this cause are unconscionable. God will send their hierarchies to hell for their actions.

Oops. there is no hell. Oh well. Perhaps they will get what they deserve here on earth.

Now. Knowing how evolution works, do you still have a problem with explaining the presence of evil?

Regards
DL

[LongTimePast]

Well....
I more or less believe as you do I suppose. I like to think that religion was created to justify the moral standings of man. Religion gives meaning to the words good and evil. I believe in the Creator. No religious deity.

The actions which are "evil" are labeled so because they can not be justified. Justification. Justification is just another social standard that makes people feel all warm and fuzzy inside because they accomplished something and outwitted the "justice" that they cling to so tightly. Now I believe that if someone gets hurt from another persons actions then the action is deemed wrong, but it goes back to moral justification. Evil is a self-satisfying term used to label something for people to feel comfortable.
Killing a rabbit for food isn't wrong, but if you kill a rabbit for no reason then the killing is evil. I'm not a vegan, but the way I see it, killing is killing. It's not wrong nor evil. It's necessary.
Is war wrong or evil? If you are being oppressed for your views and beliefs, would you fight or be passive? Either way could be seen as wrong. Personal Perception.

If there is no hell then there can be no Satan and ultimately no evil.

[Greatest I am]

Well....
I more or less believe as you do I suppose. I like to think that religion was created to justify the moral standings of man. Religion gives meaning to the words good and evil. I believe in the Creator. No religious deity.

The actions which are "evil" are labeled so because they can not be justified. Justification. Justification is just another social standard that makes people feel all warm and fuzzy inside because they accomplished something and outwitted the "justice" that they cling to so tightly. Now I believe that if someone gets hurt from another persons actions then the action is deemed wrong, but it goes back to moral justification. Evil is a self-satisfying term used to label something for people to feel comfortable.
Killing a rabbit for food isn't wrong, but if you kill a rabbit for no reason then the killing is evil. I'm not a vegan, but the way I see it, killing is killing. It's not wrong nor evil. It's necessary.
Is war wrong or evil? If you are being oppressed for your views and beliefs, would you fight or be passive? Either way could be seen as wrong. Personal Perception.

If there is no hell then there can be no Satan and ultimately no evil.

Thanks for this.

Satan or hell have little to do with the personal perception of individuals.
With all of us evolving and evolving includes both cooperation and competition, then we will always perceive that when we compete and lose, evil, so to speak, will be , in our own opinion, done to us..

Regards
DL

[catboydale]

Just going to throw some things out there. Just to think on.

This is from a Christian viewpoint:
It's god's world, doesn't he have the right to be "evil" if he wants?

Honestly, if you want to be blunt about it, God is more evil than we humans could ever be. I mean, he created this place called "Hell" which by the way, isn't like a prison. Human law works like this: "You do something wrong, and you go to jail, pay a fine, or get the death penalty". God's law works like this "You do something wrong, you get forgiven, granted you are saved by Jesus Christ, if you aren't well, you get to rot in this place called hell for eternity, no, this isn't a 10 year sentence, this is a beyond life sentence that spans beyond time so that you suffer for indefinite, something you mortals can't comprehend."

***

Now let's just put this at a non-christian view point. Just a question to ponder on about the creator.

Let's say you see a little boy about to chase a ball out into a busy intersection. You being stronger and faster, can stop the boy without anyone getting hurt. Would you stop the boy? Or let him run out into danger, and possibly get killed. Is letting the boy run out into danger an evil act? Say the boy gets hit by a car, and you could have stopped it. Are you evil for letting him die?

You see, throw the creator into that mix. If you had the power to create the world, then in a sense, all this pain and suffering we see in our world today is kind of like the little boy scenario. There are plenty of people in this world today that are dying, or making poor choices or harming others. The creator with all his power, just sitting by, watching people get hurt or killed. He has the POWER to stop people from evil, but he chooses not to, does that make the creator evil?

***

As mentioned before, it does bring up the point about personal perspective. What is Evil? Can god really be Evil? Who created evil or is evil intuitive in all things?

Then you have to ask yourself things like this: Why is killing wrong?
Is it because killing ends a life? What is the value of a life?
Why is stealing wrong?
Because it takes something from someone else. And in that case, does ownership of material things matter?

I personally believe, simply by self reflection, we can figure out what is right and what is wrong.
Do onto others as you would like done to you. Think about it, it's more logical than you think.

***

Now, let's bring the creator into the mix again. If the Creator had all the power in the world to stop evil or pain or suffering from happening, then why doesn't he. He has to be evil right? Because he is sitting by, twiddling his thumbs, letting evil run rampet.

Is taking away free will evil?
Oh, that's an interesting question. I mean, god could make all these "evil" people "good", and the world would be spared. I mean, god could also kill off these evil people too, but isn't killing evil? Then you start to wonder... god could get rid of all the evil if he changed people. But that ultimately takes away freewill. So what exactly is evil? Is god or the creator evil? Does your natural law express the unnatural nature of god?

***

Sometimes I like to ponder, if I was in god's shoes, what would I do. It almost seems easy to think of what you'd do if you were all powerful.

***

Assuming there is no god, and we'll take it from an atheist perspective.

Competition.
Two Lions, one sick, one not sick.
The two lions are fighting over food and the strong lion takes the food from the sick lion, who is in more need of the food.
If these weren't lions, and they were human beings, we would consider it somewhat evil that the strong human took the food from the needy; because the strong human was able to make a moral decision, where as a lion was not. Because human beings are intelligent and apparently know "right from wrong", the strong human was evil, by not giving the food to the sick human who was in need of it.
Which brings us to Cooperation
Two Lions, one sick, one not sick.
The two lions share the food, or the strong lion gives the food to the needy lion.
If theses weren't lions, and they were human beings, we would consider it somewhat good that the strong human gave the food to the needy; because the strong human was able to make a moral decision, where as the lion was not. Because human beings are intelligent and apparently know "right from wrong". You get the idea.
But let's throw in a moral dilemma, and lets say the strong lion needed the food to feed his cub, which were equally as needy as the sick lion. If the strong human took the food from the sick human to feed his kid which were equally as needy as the sick human, is he evil? Does evil necessarily have a defining line? Did the strong human do what's right because he fed his kid? Or did the strong human do what was wrong because he didn't give to the sick?
Like you said before, people who lose in competition feel wronged, or that "evil" has been done to them. The sick human who lost to the strong human when fighting over food may have felt like evil had taken place, but what if that food was going to a higher purpose? To feed a sick child or a pregnant woman? You may feel "eviled", being in the sick human's shoes, but is it really evil?

***

Anyways, throwing things out there. It's getting late, and I was just pondering on the subject mater.

[Greatest I am]

God or not. If not moral then he is garbage.

I am not sure where you wish to go from here.

Regards
DL

[catboydale]

We'll play god for a second.
What would you do if you were in his shoes? If you were god?

I mean, if we want to talk about morality, you could just make a world where evil could never happen.

I often here about the concept of balance. Like the Tao. Without sadness, there is no happiness; without evil, there can be no good. Can there be good without evil? Can you ever be happy if there isn't a determinant for "not-happy"?
Is god Real Evil? I like to think of him as nothing more than straight neutral. He could have made an entirely good world, but less there was evil in the world, how could we define good? We understand that good is evil's counter part, but without evil, how could their ever be any good? Since good is "not-evil". I believe god gives us the free will to make our own decisions in life, therefor he is being neutral in that aspect. Sure, he could make us do good, but that would defeat the purpose of free will... which brings back to the latter point, is taking away free will evil?

***

Did god destroy Sodom and Gomorrah? Did god tell Moses to wage war against other nations. Yes, he did. Is that evil? By Human standards yes.
We could very well say that god is evil based off the actions he did, but I ask you, what was god's intent?

Lets say for example that your significant other was being held hostage and he was going to rape and kill her. You, being the excellent gunman, can easily stop him with a weapon, killing him.
Is the fact that you killed the man evil? Or was saving your significant other good?

So let's say god wipes out Sodom and Gomorrah, which if you read in the text were both extremely evil cities full of sin and corruption. God takes the few clean people out, and destroys the two cities by fire. Is destroying a city of evil and good act or a bad act? What was god's intentions?

Some people believe that the death of Osama bin Laden was a good act, because letting him live would have resulted in more evil acts. But is it right? Is it good?

***

Which brings me back to my third thought.
If god made us in his own image, and we are like him, then maybe we are evil and good just like he is evil and good?

***

Fourth and final thought.
If the creator exists, which I find it hard to believe he doesn't, then he has granted you a gift. Existence. Many people will say "I didn't ask to be created". I usually respond "That's fine, you can be a nothing. Being nothing is boring, existing is more exciting than not-existing."

Wish I had more time to respond, just words to think on.

[Greatest I am]

We'll play god for a second.
What would you do if you were in his shoes? If you were god?

Any God who wants relevance must be here and now. God is not. he is hiding in the bush.

I mean, if we want to talk about morality, you could just make a world where evil could never happen.

If evil cannot happen then there is no need to speak of morals.

I often here about the concept of balance. Like the Tao. Without sadness, there is no happiness; without evil, there can be no good. Can there be good without evil? Can you ever be happy if there isn't a determinant for "not-happy"?

You are the only one who can determine this.

Is god Real Evil? I like to think of him as nothing more than straight neutral. He could have made an entirely good world, but less there was evil in the world, how could we define good? We understand that good is evil's counter part, but without evil, how could their ever be any good? Since good is "not-evil". I believe god gives us the free will to make our own decisions in life, therefor he is being neutral in that aspect. Sure, he could make us do good, but that would defeat the purpose of free will... which brings back to the latter point, is taking away free will evil?

***

Do you see------do things my way or burn forever ------ as being given free will?
Or is it more of a threat?

Is freedom something that can be given?
Or it it something that can only be taken?

Did god destroy Sodom and Gomorrah? Did god tell Moses to wage war against other nations. Yes, he did. Is that evil? By Human standards yes.
We could very well say that god is evil based off the actions he did, but I ask you, what was god's intent?

One word. Myth.

As to God's intent, I do not care.
It is his actions we are judging.

His intent, whatever it is, is self serving. It would have to be.

Lets say for example that your significant other was being held hostage and he was going to rape and kill her. You, being the excellent gunman, can easily stop him with a weapon, killing him.
Is the fact that you killed the man evil? Or was saving your significant other good?

So let's say god wipes out Sodom and Gomorrah, which if you read in the text were both extremely evil cities full of sin and corruption. God takes the few clean people out, and destroys the two cities by fire. Is destroying a city of evil and good act or a bad act? What was god's intentions?

And so much thought for the innocent children and babies.
Whatever God's intention was, what we learn is that he is immoral.
A God who has the option of curing and chooses to kill, is an immoral idiot.

Some people believe that the death of Osama bin Laden was a good act, because letting him live would have resulted in more evil acts. But is it right? Is it good?

***

Which brings me back to my third thought.
If god made us in his own image, and we are like him, then maybe we are evil and good just like he is evil and good?

As the O P indicates.

***

Fourth and final thought.
If the creator exists, which I find it hard to believe he doesn't, then he has granted you a gift. Existence. Many people will say "I didn't ask to be created". I usually respond "That's fine, you can be a nothing. Being nothing is boring, existing is more exciting than not-existing."

Wish I had more time to respond, just words to think on.

Yes. Thanks for this.

Regards
DL