Voices, dreams, what is it?

[Mishima]

Hello, I have been having some very strange experiences ever since, a few years ago, I lived in a house, where I had contact with this symbol, the pentagram, which was on the house´s wall. First, let me tell you more about myself. I have never practiced any kind of ritual or anything related to the occult, went to church as a kid(presbiterian), but quit when I was around 12, my whole life I experienced some strange, inexplicable events, but nothing that would come close to what began to happen after I lived in this house.

After sometime in that house I began to have some very strange dreams, that were not like the common senseless dreams, but which had a coherent story in it, with people talking to me about some serious subjects, in a very organized and logical manner. More recently I began to communicate with those "voices", and, as we engage in discussion, they started to tell me some amazing things about them, the world and my life.

My experience with those beings alternate positive and negative moments, they seem to be extremely intelligent, and know a lot about my life, I kind of freaked out when I began to do some research on this subject and found out many things which were told to me by these beings, like, they basically told me a whole set of ideas, kind of a doctrine, that, in researching in the internet, I found to be related to some form of satanism, even though they explained better some concepts they allege to be a misinterpretation of who they really are.

Does anyone have an idea of what this can be?Sometimes I get really scared, they have recently told me something about my childhood that really freaked me out.

Thanks

[akimbomoss]

Satan is like God, the more you dig the more different definitions you can come up with.

What doctrine?

[Mishima]

They don´t claim to be satan or anything like it, basically, they told me that they are a group engaged in bringing order to chaos, they said that God is light, and that the devil does not exist, what happens is that there are some places that are very distant from the light of God, and people may interpret it as being the devil or hell, they told me that what they do is to bring light to those places. They said that humans tend to interpret reality in the form of myths that resemble that reality, for instance, they said that the structure of our solar system is the basis for the conception of God, later, doing some research on that matter, I found a similar argument presented on the first part of that movie Zeitgeist.

Sometimes they communicate through thoughts, sometimes through dreams, the dreams are very amazing, for they do not seem to be dreams, they tend to be a very long, logical and coherent narrative, where they develop some arguments. In one of those dreams, I found myself in a cave, talking to a bunch of turtles, they told that they are a part of a group that oppose the tyranny imposed on earth by an evil being that presented itself as being God, the creator, they claim this being to be the God in the old testament, and that the serpent mentioned in the Genesis was a member of their group. They said that the teachings related to this being as misleading, since his intent is only to maintain control over mankind, they said that the history of the fall is a deliberated distortion of what they were doing, since searching for the knowledge of God is very different from trying to be God, the latter being a false accusation attempting to discredit the pursuit of knowledge. They said that to claim to be God is a mistake, but not to attempt to know God. The said that most religions are based on such misconceptions.

The also said that the history of Jesus Christ is an example of such distortions, they claim that the focus on Jesus, the man, is an attempt to divert from his ideas, since you can kill a man, but cannot kill an idea. They said that the gospels were a response to the tyrannical God of the old testament. They said that the devil in the desert is, in reality, a manifestation of that God, and that he did the same to Abraham and others.

In a nutshell, that is what they told me, in a very elaborated and intelligent manner, they are very convincing and seem very knowledgeable.

[Mishima]

There are somethings about those beings that kind of freak me out. For one thing, they told me that I had a relative, already dead, who engaged in witchcraft for material gains, I thought of my paternal grandfather, who was wealthy, but could not see any trace of religiosity on him, he was just a very materialistic person, inquiring further, I found out that my paternal grandmother engaged in black magic, in the form of candomblé, an african religion where people do rituals for personal gains or to cause harm to others. These entities told me about an event that happened in my childhood, which I had just a vague memory, but which made a lot of sense after they told me. Once, in order to celebrate some business, from which he made a lot of money, my grandfather gave a big party, and ordered the slaughter of a lot of goats to be eaten during this event(if I am not mistaken, it was 100 goats, it was a very big party, with hundreds of guests), anyways, I was about five, by the way, I am from Brazil. I remember being left in the place where the goats were being killed, the whole day I saw them being killed, just me and the guys who were killing them, at a certain point, the guy told me that drinking rum with the beard of the goat was good for me, for it would make me smart(now I remember that this was something my grandfather always did, he was always feeding me something which would supposedly make me smarter). That is when the entities come in and tell me that those goats were actually being offered, they also told me that the knife used to kill them (they were having their throats cut)was the same knife used to cut the goatee which I swallow with rum, hence, the entities said, I was, in fact, drinking blood.

What would be the meaning of such ritual?

I remember being a very aggressive and violent child, I remember trying to kill a bunch of puppie cats once, I was going to sink them in the water, an employee of my grandfather showed up and prevented me from doing that(luckly, I think today), my grandfather also taught me math, in school, I remember being very aggressive towards the other kids, also of having higher grades.

I remember my grandmother as being a very realist person, did not have any friends and was very respected(indeed feared)in my town. She was also one of the founders of the presbitarian church in my town, which I attended until I was about 12, my grandmother used to say that presbitarianism was good because it was a religion based on study, as compared to catholicism, a religion based on ignorance. My grandmother was ver anti-catholic.

[Mishima]

As I mentioned in the previous posts, these entities communicate with me through thoughts or dreams, but these manifestations are much more intense if there is a pentagram around. In the house where I used to live, there was a pentagram sculpted on the wall, it was very ice, at night, when it would be very dark, the light of the street would come through it, making it kind of dark and yellow. After I moved from that house, I got a necklace with a pentagram, but I wasn´t able to use it, so I just left it hanging in my room. As I said, the manifestations become more intense with the pentagram nearby, sometimes, a very deep, intense energy comes along, it does not say anything, only makes me feel filled with hate, but a very intense hate, very strong, when this hate comes, I kind of remain under its effect for about 3 days, until it wears off, after that I am very tired, feel my head exhausted, a very strange feeling.

The entities told that I have to learn how to handle this energy, that I must prepare myself. Anyone could please help me understand what this means and what I could do?

[akimbomoss]

What a strange story. I wish I had more confidence to say for sure what's going on but...

The pentagram is associated with many different things occult like invoking, banishing, strength, geburah. I find it strange that you bought a house with a big pentagram in it. Could it be that somebody left their spirits there for you to find them? You did not say how you came to live in this house.

That story about the old / new testament reflects what most of us think on this forum. Pretty accurate information coming from those spirits. They seem to have become full blown allies to you... and that is unusual that the dreams are so coherent... you never tried to lucid dream before?

About the pentagram hating feeling. I think it could be the feeling of being cheated out of the truth in your past... the truth about organized religion and control. It could also be a feeling that you need to have strength in order to maintain good relations with these allies. Allies tend to elevate a person and they can push you forward whether you want to or not. I would say that realizing your fortune in getting these powerful allies without having to summon them could boost your ego. Any ego boost is a trap so don't fall for it (like maybe your grand parents did). Normally a beginner occultist should read a lot and do rituals (preparation) before contacting spirits... but not always.

I also think this preparation could have something to do with Carlos Castaneda style "stalking". I like the 4 elements of stalking and the 4 enemies because they are the best summary of how a person should live their life (in my opinion). It will increase your energy pool which your allies can then use to connect with you better. Without going into detail the stalking elements are sweetness, cunning, ruthlessness and patience. The 4 enemies are fear, clarity, power and old age.

Well that's the best advice I have for now. There are too many details to get it all right in one post. I think other forum members should weigh in too.

[akimbomoss]

Oh and I should say that Carlos Castaneda isn't perfect... but some of the stuff he wrote is... so that's why I reference it... due to a lack of anything better.

For example he doesn't do banishing rituals but many on the forum do to keep a sane mind and aura. Usually the first rituals recommended are always banishing rituals.

[Mishima]

About the house, it is another unusual story.

I was a student at the University of Amazonas, in Manaus, a city located at the heart of the amazon rain forest, me and a friend shared an apartment, but the neighbors were really noisy, and the city hall began to work on some projects on that area, making it very crowded and noisy, so we decided to move out and were looking for a place. A girl from Manaus I was dating at the time told us of a house to rent very cheap near the university, which was very good, since we both attended the same university. We went to see the place and the deal was just too good to be true, the house was really nice, it had a garden with trees, fruits, and a well(water supply is a little problematic in the area of the city), and the price was really cheap. We were told that the owner was renting it really cheap because he had left his wife for an younger woman, so he just wanted to rent the house as soon as possible, since his new wife did not want to live there. The guy was a rich lawyer from Manaus, he told us he was deeply involved with the local masonry and was buying another house elsewhere.

From the day we moved in, strange things began to happen. There were two rooms in the house, I kept the room that used to belong to the lawyer, my friend stayed in the room downstairs. As we were moving our things, we found a book about the interpretation of dreams, and we also found a picture of a woman, looked like an old picture, an old colored picture, a woman in her 30s, we had the impression that was someone who had already died, everybody who saw that picture felt scared. In the backyard there were a bunch of trees, kind like a small forest, very nice, but very strange. We had some BBQ back there a few times, and everybody also felt there was something strange about those trees. We had a woman that came to clean the house twice a week, well, she quit, telling me that one day she saw a woman in the backyard and was very scared and never wanted to enter that house again. As I became friends with the neighbors, they told me that the rich lawyer was involved with black magic, one of the neighbors used to work for him, he told me he would buy a lot of candles, of different colors, and that he had a kind of a small temple inside the house, I asked where it was but he didn´t want to tell me, but I kind of had an idea of where it was, I asked if it was the storage room, by the kitchen, and he said yes. That was the strangest place in the house, me and my friend went there and thought it was very strange, it had, I don´t know, an energy that was very different. It was a small room, all painted in green, there was a big safe in there. After the neighbor told me that, I went down there and noticed that the door resembled the door of a temple.

Anyways, my friend got a girlfriend and began to spend a lot of time in her apartment, so I was pretty much living by myself in the house, and, even though there was this strange feeling about the house, I hadn´t yet experienced the things I would experience later. My friend ended up moving out, and I stayed living all by myself in the house, that was when the dreams began. My father had died a few years before and I had a dream with him, but it was this kind of unusual dream I was talking about, he came and kind of had the sort of conversation we used to have when he was still alive, practical things, he began giving me a kind of a lecture, I remember him saying "you gotta stop carrying this cross around", and then asked me what I intended to do with my life, I explained to him my plans and he seemed satisfied, before the dream was over I asked him how was death like, and he told me that, at first, you are all alone, but then they send some people to rescue you, however, my father had this look his face whenever he was lying, and I knew he was lying.

[Mishima]

Akimbomoss, I never really felt cheated because, ever since I was about 12, I was pretty much an atheist, it is interesting what you said because this hate feeling usually comes when I am feeling down, I suspected it was these entities trying to help in some way, but I did not feel prepared to handle this energy, I was afraid of losing control over it.

Could you recommend me some books?You mention Carlos Castaneda, what book exactly would be a good introduction?

Thanks

[akimbomoss]

I have a problem. I only recommend stuff I know and I've fallen behind in my reading of the more practical books.

A Seperate Reality and Journey to Ixtlan. Don't read the first book unless you've read books 2-9... it's much funnier that way. You will find these books very easy to read compared to most occult books. They seem to summarize eastern philosophy in an autobiographical way. It will give you an idea of what is possible... but not so practical.

When you start out with spirits early on things can get confusing. In the beginning it can seem like you are being guided to increase your energy rather than casting spells or doing long rituals. That's why I'm finding it hard to recommend any books. No book will tell you that having a history of mental illness in your family could put you at a risk of madness when starting magick. So do you? If you do then start thinking about your food. I had asymptomatic reactions to gluten, dairy and sugar that affected my mind and my life. So now I'm healing myself first to eventually become a healer. But that's not in any book. Also watch the chaos magick. Don't let too many things become true in your mind or that could lead to madness.

I had a run-in with a spirit that involved members of this forum called The Fox http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... =2&t=32356. Long story short I work with archangels now and don't talk to foxes anymore. Someone I trust reported the angels where standing back observing... waiting for me to become more regular with my thoughts. I witnessed a lot of hocus-pocus and I realized my mistake: too much Dreaming not enough Stalking (I have no job and live with my parents). So now I'm not dreaming at all, just stalking. These are Carlos Castaneda concepts again. Dreaming whips up the dream and stalking helps to pin it there. Without stalking you're just a mad dreamer.

You don't sound like a mad dreamer to me. Just telling you which mines I stepped on.

[Mishima]

I have no history of madness in my family, but I did feel I was losing it when I became really hateful, it was really hard to control, I even took some tranquilizers.

I had a look at The Teachings of Don Juan, I am not sure, I think Castaneda is kind like Paulo Coelho. Castaneda claims to be from Juqueri, which is not far from where I live, he also claims to be related to a famous brazilian diplomat, not sure the information is accurate. Anyhow, there is a Santo Daime place near my house, you guys know what it is?Santo Daime is a religion based on a tea made out some root, native of the Amazon region, which causes people to trip out and have revelations, I went there about 5 times, took the tea but never really felt anything, a little dizzy once, but that was it. I have many friends that go there, the last time I went because of this heavy load of hate I was feeling, the Santo Daime ritual kind of made me feel better, but no trip though, their rituals are very long, last for about 10 hours, so it is very tiresome, there is actually a good deal of religion in it too, and that doesn´t work for me.

Santo Daime comes from an ancient Inca religion, from Peru, where the indigenous people would take this tea and get in contact with Gods, kind of what Castaneda reports in his book. It turns out that, in the early XXth century, a Brazilian rubber tapper ended up visiting this indigenous tribe, where he took the tea, and had a vision with some saint, who instruct him to spread this new religion, a mix of the tea taking indian tradition and christianity, that is what Santo Daime is, which began in acre, a state in the brazilian amazon. Later, an adept of Santo Daime had a vision, telling him to go to south Brazil find a sacred place, where he should build a Santo Daime church, the sacred place would be shown to him by superior spirits. Anyways, this guy comes south and ends up finding the sacred place in a rural area in the mountains, about 2 miles from where I live. It is actually pretty interesting what happened there, right in the place where the first Santo Daime church was built, a series of other churches based on this tea(they grow the root in that area for religius purposes)started to developed, mixng all sorts of religions with Santo Daime. So now we have churches that practice he ancient Inca religion, churches that mix te tea taking wth afican religions(which are very common in Brazil), and religions that mix spiritism, in the alan Kardec tradition, with Santo Daime. I was thinking of going there to try t develop this voices I hear, the last time it didn´t work out, I felt nothing.

[cactusjack543]

Oh and I should say that Carlos Castaneda isn't perfect... but some of the stuff he wrote is... so that's why I reference it... due to a lack of anything better.

For example he doesn't do banishing rituals but many on the forum do to keep a sane mind and aura. Usually the first rituals recommended are always banishing rituals.

always wandered what bannishing was a design is in the soul i just locate the sorce reach up and fill my soul or others not sure what it would be called but if you hearen voices sounds like alot of control on the first post

[akimbomoss]

Santo Daime looks like an MAOI + DMT mixture. I imagine it is given in much smaller quantities so that church goers don't crap their pants and start hallucinating like crazy. I read in the psychedelics encyclopedia tribes in that area used to shoot the DMT up the nose after the aspiring medicine man took Harmine and Harmaline. They would then fall down unconcious and be semi-lucid for 3 days. Meanwhile they astral project for about 5 years inside their brains while only 3 days are passing on earth. They either come back a shaman or a madman.

I heard rumors you could do this on your lunch break on a smaller dose, 5 minutes = 1 day or some such thing and then go about your day. Called it the "businessman's drug" but I think the ride would be pretty bumpy! Not sure what kind of business that guy is in.

[akimbomoss]

I don't think you should be "developing" the voices. It puts too much load on the left brain and could lead to madness. Also I don't think the Santo Daime will be that useful. Substances can be used like a launchpad but I think you're flying already. The real challenge is to learn to control your feelings using cognitive behavior therapy, mantras or visualization exercises to combat the negative feelings. The drugs and spirits effect our energy a lot so we need to learn how to regulate it... with elimination or much discipline respectively.

[Mishima]

I thought of doing that, mixing this pentagram energy thing with something to cool down, like yoga or some kind of meditation, I am probably put it in practice.

Did you ever saw that movie "pearls before swines"?

[Mishima]

There is another thing I have been meaning to ask, the spirits from the pentagram do not like some people. From the time I have been in contact with them, they have approved most people in my circle of friends, girlfriends and relatives, but there are some people for which they have shown strong dislike. I am not sure what it is, but they seem to dislike people they consider weak. There was this girl I was dating, who got really sick in my room once, she almost passed out, said she was feeling dizzy. She came a few more times to my house, and she always felt strange, she even mentioned that she did not feel well here, that there was something about my room. Is that common?

There was another girl they particularly liked, but she also said there was something strange here, once she went to consult some people that practiced spiritism, not because of me, but becase she was already involved in those things, and they told her that she was dating some kind of medium, and that she should take him there(that was me), because he needed guidance. Anyways, I didn´t go. Later she told me she had began to see a guy following her, she described him to me, and was the same kind of guy who I saw a few times in my dreams, but he is not the same guy with whom I talk to.

[Mishima]

Akimbomoss, you are right about Santo Daime, but they take the tea in very large quantities, I myself drank a lot of it the last time I went there, a couple of years ago.

Ayahuasca
Main article: Ayahuasca

Ayahuasca, which contains the psychoactive compound dimethyltryptamine (DMT), has been the subject of increasing legal scrutiny in the last few decades as Santo Daime has expanded. The decoction has been explicitly legal for religious use in Brazil since 1986, while recent legal battles in Europe have legalized its use in Holland and Spain. In the United States, the Supreme Court in 2006 upheld a preliminary injunction permitting another Brazilian church, the União do Vegetal (UDV), to use ayahuasca ritually. This decision, as the result of specific litigation involving the UDV, applies only to that group, so the legal status of ayahuasca generally remains in a gray area in that country.

Santo Daime's entheogenic sacrament, ayahuasca, has been used for millennia[citation needed] in South American indigenous cultures. It is one of the traditional tools of the shaman in South America, and in many regions is to this day a common medicine used for finding and treating various ailments as well as for its vision-inducing effects, which are said to be profound and life-changing.

The tea has had many names including Santo Daime (or simply Daime), Hoasca, Ayahuasca, Yage, and Caapi. It is made from two or more plants, one a woody vine (Ayahuasca vine or Jagube; generally Banisteriopsis caapi), and the others known as admixtures. While various plants are used throughout South America, most of which have high concentrations of dimethyltryptamine, the preferred admixture in the case of Santo Daime is Psychotria viridis, known to church members as the "Queen of the Forest," after the figure who is said to have appeared to the church's founder in a vision, prompting him to start the religion. DMT occurs naturally in the human body and is speculated to be released at the time of death, but it is normally digested in the stomach if consumed and an MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitor), in this case tetrahydroharmine, harmine and harmaline, is needed to allow it to reach the brain in this way, thus the use of the vine. The Santo Daime Church uses only the Jagube vine and the Viridis leaf, not adding any other plants to the mixture. The tea is prepared ceremoniously over a week by members of the church in a festival called a 'feitio'. Hymns are sung, and Daime is drunk while the men hammer the vine into powder and the women clean and sort the leaves. Because of the very specific manner in which they prepare their sacrament, and the very specific way in which they use it, the beverage is not called 'Ayahuasca', but 'Santo Daime'. In some communities there are very clear distinctions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santo_Daime

[akimbomoss]

There is another thing I have been meaning to ask, the spirits from the pentagram do not like some people. From the time I have been in contact with them, they have approved most people in my circle of friends, girlfriends and relatives, but there are some people for which they have shown strong dislike. I am not sure what it is, but they seem to dislike people they consider weak. There was this girl I was dating, who got really sick in my room once, she almost passed out, said she was feeling dizzy. She came a few more times to my house, and she always felt strange, she even mentioned that she did not feel well here, that there was something about my room. Is that common?

There was another girl they particularly liked, but she also said there was something strange here, once she went to consult some people that practiced spiritism, not because of me, but becase she was already involved in those things, and they told her that she was dating some kind of medium, and that she should take him there(that was me), because he needed guidance. Anyways, I didn´t go. Later she told me she had began to see a guy following her, she described him to me, and was the same kind of guy who I saw a few times in my dreams, but he is not the same guy with whom I talk to.

So now that you've left the house this kind of thing with the girls doesn't happen anymore?

[Moth]

As we were moving our things, we found a book about the interpretation of dreams, and we also found a picture of a woman, looked like an old picture, an old colored picture, a woman in her 30s, we had the impression that was someone who had already died, everybody who saw that picture felt scared. In the backyard there were a bunch of trees, kind like a small forest, very nice, but very strange. We had some BBQ back there a few times, and everybody also felt there was something strange about those trees. We had a woman that came to clean the house twice a week, well, she quit, telling me that one day she saw a woman in the backyard and was very scared and never wanted to enter that house again.

Most of this is too rich for my blood - I'm glad someone else is able to help out - but one thing does occur to me. If this were a story, the protagonists would dig up the ground between those trees and find the dead body of a woman in her 30's...

[Mishima]

So now that you've left the house this kind of thing with the girls doesn't happen anymore?



Akimbomoss, I left that house many years ago, moved to another state, very far away, but after a few years I bought a pentagram and hanged it on the wall of my room, the manifestations started to occur again, stronger than before, that is when those things started to happen.

Another thing, which happened in the house and in my room afterwards, people begin to move out and leave me alone, that happened both times, on the first, I was living by myself when I moved out of the house, on the second, as soon as I removed the pentagram from my room, people began to moving back in.

[Mishima]

Moth, I am not making this up, it took me a long time to accept those things, since they are so unusual, to say the least, a lot more happened, things I just cannot explain.

[cactusjack543]

if i had an article in my house that could possibly do that it would be a false measurement from a tv if i so moved out of town it would cause quite a stir

[Moth]

Moth, I am not making this up, it took me a long time to accept those things, since they are so unusual, to say the least, a lot more happened, things I just cannot explain.

I never said you were making it up, and I apologise if that's how it came over. Sometimes there is a narrative in events, and sometimes you can choose to follow it.

[akimbomoss]

Maybe these entities have been programmed to only invoke when the pentagram is on the wall by the previous owner (who seems to have abandoned them until they found you)?

Franz Bardon said in his book Initiation into Hermetics that servitors created to get clients for business can become vampiric. I wonder if that's what has happened here?

I suppose the reason you hung that pentagram again was to re-establish contact with these beings. You knew what they did before but this time would be different? They sound like egregores or tulpas making a nuisance of themselves. I personally, sir, think you are in over your head. You even had an opportunity for external guidance and turned it down before, I don't know why.

Also according to CC when we see somebody we know in a dream it's usually a being from a far away plane. So your dad showing up in your dream might not have been your dad at all. It could have been an entity trying to warn you something is amiss.

Now hear this. If simply buying a pentagram from a store and hanging it on a wall tells these friends of yours it's time to boogy then they must be listening to you. It's like by hanging up the pentagram it means lunch time until it comes back down again. Kindly explain to them that they can't snack on other people's energy anymore and that pentagrams should not be taken as carte blanche to start harvesting. After that you may need to tell them all to leave except 1 because you don't have enough energy for all of them.

If that doesn't work then it's time to change paradigms a bit and start doing the LRBP and LBH. Maybe you should do them anyway... it would force an election to determine if those energies are really positive or not. The first is for internal banishing and the second for external. Failing that you might need an exorcism ritual.

I managed to get messed up with a spirit that was something like that but it was confined between people on this forum only. I was too vulnerable and turned to the more easy going angels. If you still need tranqualizers it could be an indicator of vulnerability. You can't succomb to fear. They will make you face your fear. The only way to defeat fear is with stalking. Sweetness, patience, cunning and ruthlessness.

[hobotubbie]

I didn't read everything for now just stopped at the point where you talked about your parental grandmother being a follower and practicioner of candomble.. and associating it to black magic and a kind of practice that would be intended to personal enrichment and causing bad.

That is not true .. i'm not a follower but i've practiced and studied it and i think you should study a bit further about the subject.. before talking about it and secondly because of your grandmother.. since she was working on it and i guess you like your bloodlines maybe it would be interesting for you to try to understand it and consequently more about your grandmother.
Candomble has a panteon like almost other religion and cult.. where each entity represents a "force" of nature.. an energy basicly most like norse mythology celtic or roman. They are pretty much the same tbh in theory .. the rituals and cultures are not tho. For example.. you have Yansa which represents the thunder and the wind.. you have yemanja who represents the sea, ogum represents the war and the forest and so on so on. You have tho a "trickster" called Exu .. very much compared to the evil caracther of the other religions.

I don't wanna write a big testament about the subject.. just saying that studying your grandmother's art wouldn't hurt you =) Anyways i'll keep on reading about your problem and see if i can be of help.

Btw i was already assuming you were from Brazil since candomble/umbanda even tho it's originaly from Nigeria it was brought to brazil by slaves and it's very popular it makes me very perplexed that you think that way about it :O