Otherkin

[Asurendra]

I am intrigued by the subject of Otherkin. What does everyone think about this subject?

[Frater_NT]

not a believer

[Rin]

The whole concept is nonsense. There's nothing wrong with wanting to get in touch with the concepts/ideals/energies embodied by certain animals/creatures/energies, but the idea of actually BEING one is nonsensical. Even if you start out accepting the idea that human souls could have experienced life as something other than human in previous incarnations (which I don't have any trouble with, on a theoretical level), the fact that you're human now, in a human body, with a human mind, born of a human mother and father, makes you human. It's as simple as that.

Much like the concept of the condition of psychic vampirism, it's an idea fabricated on the internet for people who want to be special and unique without having to work for it. You won't find any references to it from more than 15 or so years ago because before that people didn't have the internet to get them in touch with other people who would indulge them and drive them further into their mutually supported fantasies.

That might seem a bit harsh, but I don't think the online occult community at large does these people any favors by playing along, it just drives them deeper into their self delusion and retards their social/emotional/spiritual growth. If they want to roleplay an elf or a dragon or a demon or whatever, they can buy some D&D manuals and play with their friends, but that's all it is, roleplaying, and we do them a disservice by letting them be tricked into thinking otherwise.

[Frater_NT]

... we do them a disservice by letting them be tricked into thinking otherwise.

oh but didn't you get the memo? We have to be accepting of everyones' beliefs so if they think they are a unicorn incarnate we have to accept that [rolleyes] lol Yeah, I couldn't agree more with Rin on this one. We can all agree to disagree on method of practice and religion and all that good stuff, but encouraging silly shit like otherkin just frankly dumbs down the occult community.

[Frumens]

I associate otherkin with New Age beliefs, where you'll find starseeds and wanderers and incarnate angels and indigo children and walk-ins and lightworkers and whatever they think of next. It's definitely possible for a human to have had a past life as something non-human. After all, consciousness is eternal, but humans have sprung into existence very very recently. I remember a video in which a New Ager was saying that everyone is a starseed, but some humans have more awareness than others. These people tend to believe that they've incarnated onto Earth for a specific reason, to "raise the vibration" and bring love and light to humanity. This doesn't sound so different than any other religious/spiritual belief, except you replace Garden of Eden with the Arcturus star system, or you replace true will with intergalactic mission. I think that religion is a beautiful thing and new religions should be respected and appreciated for bringing more love into the world.

There is a different group of otherkin who don't partake in the religious aspect. Maybe they just feel alienated from the world and rationalize this by identifying as owls or dragons or whatever. As long as they don't hurt anybody, I don't have a problem with that. Maybe it would be nice if they researched occultism seriously instead of saying that they're vampires with no psychic powers, but it's not my business.

[Nahemah]

...We have to be accepting of everyones' beliefs so if they think they are a unicorn incarnate we have to accept that [rolleyes]

Ans there lies the rub,lol. [crazy]

I'm not nitpicking your comment Fr,I agree with you [just saying] and I'm quoting because it illustrates an important point.

What we should do is acknowledge other beliefs and that they exist,which is not at all the same as acceptance or validation. [geek2]

Confusion between acknowledgement and acceptance has led to a lot of Flame wars online and I'm a veteran of quite a few of those myself. [rolleyes]

I'm not a believer either,though I do find the psychology and demographics interesting,I must admit.

The alienation that sometimes drives people to want to be 'other' than human is very intriguing for me.

I find it similarly intriguing to the way we [...and they themselves, for some individuals of course] create monsters out of some people in society and also our collective societal denials and disavowals of the darker aspects of human nature as being integral parts of human nature and the often fantastical appearances and animalistic qualities we attach to these disavoals and monsters.

The other side of the coin there,is our simultaneous morbid fascination for and glamourising of the same thing: think the 'sexing up' of vampires,for one groanily cliched but valid interpretation,or my recent fave TV drama here in the UK,Being Human,for another.

Bestiality comes to mind here also,sorry,but it does for me,so I've outed it before anyone else does.This is getting towards the more extreme end of the subject and now we're sliding over to furries and links with paraphilia,at the extreme end of the genres.

Dangerous territory,perhaps,for discussion here? Meh,could be.

But,another point,which I find intriguing also is that Anthromorphism and Zoomorphism are both generally accepted concepts in myth,fable,folklore and religion cross culturally worldwide,since time immemorial.
And I have several books that depict inter species sex as a divine image and theme,mostly in myths,I should add, as I really don't have an odd or strange porn collection...honest. [shock2]

I find it all very interesting and I do know some magickally inclined folk who define themselves more as shapeshifters,with animal soul shards and attachments as in some traditional Shamanic practices than as otherkin,re : full animal/mythical beast soul.

[Frater_NT]

I find it all very interesting and I do know some magickally inclined folk who define themselves more as shapeshifters

Perhaps it's not the same that you are talking about, but there are methods of astral work where you would change your astral form into other creatures/animals. This clearly isn;t the same thing as thinking that you're an animal or creature born into a human body though.

[Nahemah]

It's not always so easy to clearly define/locate where imagination ends and delusion begins,or where magickal creativity becomes conflated with magical thinking and so on.

Where are those lines exactly and do we have a reliable collective consensus for defining them?

Somewhere in the broad spectrum between Animism and Animalism,perhaps?

[Asurendra]

Some great points have definitely been made on this subject. At this point I tend to think there are four main categories to explain this phenomenon:
For some of these people there are issues of mental health. I’m sure that would be echoed through other aspects of their lives.
Others may be energetically imbalanced. They are affected by a totem animal but it is interpreted the wrong way.
They could be manipulated by some astral entity which produces illusionary experiences. I think those who claim they are here ‘to raise our vibration’ are highly suspect in this area. Whenever an entity starts spouting off how great it is or about special missions it is HIGHLY suspect. When Lord Vishnu took birth as Krishna or Rama, he didn’t have to go around telling everyone how great he was!
Perhaps for others this actually is the case that at the level of their core they are not ‘human’ in the ways that others are. But, as has already been said, in everything else they are so what does this really mean? If one has a ‘core connection’ to Wolf from ‘being’ a wolf, that does that offer more than someone who simply has a wolf totem?
If an individual is more ‘well-adjusted’ I would be more inclined to put credence to the claim.

[Frumens]

They could be manipulated by some astral entity which produces illusionary experiences. I think those who claim they are here ‘to raise our vibration’ are highly suspect in this area. Whenever an entity starts spouting off how great it is or about special missions it is HIGHLY suspect. When Lord Vishnu took birth as Krishna or Rama, he didn’t have to go around telling everyone how great he was!

A huge problem with the New Age movement is that they'll invite any random non-physical entity into their body and listen to everything it says like it's the gospel truth. It sounds like they made Ouija boards into a religion or something. My guess is that most of the channeled stuff entirely comes from or is heavily altered by the channeler's personal perspective on what religion should teach and what it means to be human. Sometimes the channeled stuff is legit alien-speak, but that doesn't mean it's accurate or even honest.

There's a starseed with a popular YouTube who calls herself Sudevi. I don't believe anything she says, but she actually agrees with what you said about non-physical entities being suspicious. Funny that. I guess the veracity varies based on the skill of the channeler.

[Nahemah]

I think of starseeds,lightworkers and earth angels[ et al ]as a special kind of delusional. [crazy]

I find it easier to understand about otherkin and the drives that fuel it,than I do about these sorts.

But then,there's nowhere the levels of exploitable profit in otherkin that there seems to be in promoting extra terrestial origins/special interplanetary being other than human [but not animal ]/hybrid alien humanoanimal morph type beings and so on...

[Frumens]

think of starseeds,lightworkers and earth angels[ et al ]as a special kind of delusional. [crazy]

I agree that it's completely crazy. But, does it sound much more crazy than believing that a pregnant virgin gave birth to the magical zombie-savior of humanity? Is it crazier than believing God made the world in seven days, and then he told some nomads to cut off their foreskins?

I find it easier to understand about otherkin and the drives that fuel it,than I do about these sorts.

But then,there's nowhere the levels of exploitable profit in otherkin that there seems to be in promoting extra terrestial origins/special interplanetary being other than human [but not animal ]/hybrid alien humanoanimal morph type beings and so on...

From the stories I've heard, it seems like there are two ways people come to identify as starseeds: mental illness and desperation. Sudevi claims that time stopped and a disembodied voice told her she's an alien. For most other people it comes from taking online surveys, feeling lonely, and spending money; aliens are the new Cleopatra. [cool]

[Nahemah]

...But, does it sound much more crazy than believing that a pregnant virgin gave birth to the magical zombie-savior of humanity? Is it crazier than believing God made the world in seven days, and then he told some nomads to cut off their foreskins?

No,it dosen't.

They're all delusional,lol. [eg]

It seems the crazy's been with us a long time,it's just the appellations that evolve. [greensmile]

[Ramscha]

I spent a few months in a otherkin forum because I also was interested in that topic and was curious what the otherkins themselves had to say to that.
Well my impression of most of the people their was as if they fled into some fantastic dream world.

Example: A horned wolv with rainbow wings coming from another dimension as a guardian to guard the secrets of his folks in this world. Of course he did not want to tell me which secrets [lol]

Also every third otherkin seemed to be a dragon, but I never saw an otherkin saying he was a snail, a fly or a bee.
Finally I must say I like the basic concept and find it very interesting, the subculture itself is very colourful and the people are creative but thats it almost.
Not really more than a subculture, very few members are more than that.

Ramscha

[Rin]

The ones I love are the hybrids. 'Hi my name is ShadowWing and after spending the afternoon reading glittery angelfire websites I've decided I'm a half dragon half succubi psychic vampire! Come and give me attention and validate me for being a super duper special snowflake!'

[Anonyma]

Dammit Rin, you actually made me google this:

http://otherkincommunity.net/topic2489

..apparently hybrids are controversial. Since they 'dont make sense'. [crazy]

[Rin]

Ugh, I couldn't help myself, I clicked the link into that forum and now my brain hurts :|

Here's a fun one: http://otherkincommunity.net/topic5008

I have been identifying for years as Fae then all of the sudden have been "knowing" that I have wolf characteristics. Has this happened to anyone else?

"It was the reverse for me. I knew I had wolf characteristics before I knew I was an angel, but now I relate more to my angel side. I'm trying to figure out where my wolf comes into play. I'm thinking it's my angel taking a wolf form."

I am awakening as an Angelic being. Of this, I am almost certain.

However, is it possible to be both Angelic and therianthropic? I am not suggesting, of course, that I am some spiritual hybridisation of the two. I am asking if it may be theorised that one can identify as x through reincarnation, but also as y through pure psychological association?

So about a week ago, I dreamed of flying. The next morning I awoke to a full shift into a small dragon (I think it's just young). since then, I have not been able to shift into my angel form or contact my angel side, but my vampire side is completely functioning and even more active than before. My mentor is baffled, but she theorizes that my angel might have just been a guadian until I found out who (or what) I really am.

And it goes on and on....

The internet: validating insanity since 1989.

[Nahemah]

Strange stuff indeed.

And I do find it a bit ironic that someone who self identifies as 'incubus kin' is criticising someone claiming the 'hybrid' status...

my mind is a tad boggled by that one. [crazy]

It seems more complicated than I recall reading about previously and I'm not sure I understand why one fantastical creature is considered more valid/sensible than another.

I'm not sure if I want to find out why this is so,either.

[Asurendra]

I think that, in general, the validity of claimed metaphysical experience can be weighed by how well-adjusted the claimant is. If we could see most of these people, I'm sure it would be clear that they are neurotic and energetically imbalanced.
Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q77sJT8O56E (the Teen Werewolves)

But, I think there may be rare cases where there is something to this beyond just being 'possessed' by an archetype.

[Nahemah]

But, I think there may be rare cases where there is something to this beyond just being 'possessed' by an archetype.

Yes,I think so on the odd occasion too.
But it is quite a rare phenomenon and difficult to engage with,no doubt even more so nowadays,given all the background noise going on currently.

[Clockwork Ghost]

Sorry, just jumping in to the thread to side with all those people who think the concept of 'otherkin' is just batshit crazy. Personally, I leave websites if they have an 'otherkin' section because its just so much complete and utter bollocks that it infects the rest of the forum.

Especially like Rin's post above - absolutely 100% feel the same way. [grin]

[Ramscha]

What I also recall was that in some sections or believed from some members there even was a kind of racissm. Otherkin were some kind of "superior" to humans they beliefed and their evidence for their paradigm is when a human then says what nonsense they beliefe in or when he does not understand it. The he is just a dumb human. It seems that with the otherkin beliefe of some persons their comes along also a big portion of misanthropy.Just strange but due to its little size even in the otherkin community ther is no real danger potential.

[jarandhel]

Much like the concept of the condition of psychic vampirism, it's an idea fabricated on the internet for people who want to be special and unique without having to work for it. You won't find any references to it from more than 15 or so years ago because before that people didn't have the internet to get them in touch with other people who would indulge them and drive them further into their mutually supported fantasies.

Strictly speaking, this is incorrect. Both concepts are found well prior to the advent of the internet. In fact, I can show references to both in one book written in 1930: Psychic Self Defense: A Study in Occult Pathology and Criminality by Dion Fortune, published by Rider & Co. In the chapter on vampirism it speaks both of psychic parasitism in which "There is a leakage of vitality going on, and the dominant partner is more or less consciously lapping it up, if not actually sucking it out." as well as vampirism through the projection of the etheric double.

Later on, in the chapter on "The pathology of non-human contacts" Fortune claims that a sort of spiritual accident can occur during conception and the "psychic vortex" which normally ascends the planes to draw a human soul from the astral (or even higher realms) may instead be diverted "out of the normal human line of evolution, so that its open end extends into the sphere of evolution of another type of life. Under such circumstances it is theoretically possible for a being of a parallel evolution to be drawn into incarnation in a human body." She then goes on to discuss their traits, such as being instinctively drawn towards the elemental kingdoms and having what she describes as "the morals of the barnyard" with regard to sexuality. The description is overall very negative: "We must not allow the human form to mislead us as to the existence of a human soul. A non-human is a pet animal, not a fellow-creature." But this concept, a non-human being incarnated in a human body, is undeniably the same concept as what is in modern parlance termed otherkin. And that is a clear reference from a practicing occultist, 60 years before the term otherkin was coined on the internet.

[Asurendra]

The Japanese poet Miyazawa Kenji, who died in 1933, believed he was an Asura. While I can't swear to it, I seem to remember that the founder of Akikdo, Ueshiba, claimed to have the soul of a dragon (I think this was in the book 'The Spiritual Foundations of Akido). He died in 1969.

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

I don't necessarily know that this is always a problem of people seeking attention; revelation - whether by NDE, prophetic vision, astral travel, lucid dream, akashia, etc. - always seems to be highly personal and almost always the big-picture details tend to conflict between one person and the next.

I'd consider myself utterly agnostic on the topic. Some people claim it's not so, other people would claim adamantly that They Live! I tend anymore not to judge on how fantastic something sounds but rather go with how well it ties out with other things that I'd consider researched and reliable. I don't have enough data on starseed to say whether I'd consider it real or whether it's purely a perceptual artifact.