What are the limits to the Forum?

[Asurendra]

Hello all,

I have been thinking this evening a lot about requests for help on the Forum. Like others here, I want to help people and offer them advice which will point them in a positive direction. But, what are the limits of the Forum?

Responsible and sober occult practitioners will not intervene in a situation until they have as clear a picture as possible of what the facts are. The full dynamics of a situation, especially involving powerful entities and complex energetic issues, may only manifest when one is dealing with the matter directly. One person, posting on a Forum, is not going to provide enough clear information in a paragraph or two to meet these criteria, especially when they are emotionally involved. When there are cues in the post that other factors besides the supernatural may be involved or they mention factors that, as an occultist, you know are highly questionable then it is especially important to be prudent. Throwing energy into a vague situation can have unexpected consequences. Additionally, if the events have a purely psychological origin then the involvement of an occult practitioner may either affect them or will reinforce what are their own misinterpretations of events. This defeats the goal of helping people.

The other possible path to pursue, besides undertaking a ritual oneself, is to ask those with whom we work on the other side to intervene. But, even in that case it is best to have care. Speaking personally, I do ask them to help with situations and will being an issue before them, but I would not ask them to become deeply involved in a matter unless I had a degree of certainty of what was in fact happening. Otherwise, do I appear responsible to them? They expect us to display not only compassion but good sense.

Finally, if one is going to undertake a Shamanic Journey or an actual astral projection to deal with a situation then one needs to know what one is facing and also that there is a ‘real’ supernatural problem to begin with. Otherwise, it is a major waste of time and energy and when nothing results you must deal with the opprobrium of the person for whom you undertook this effort (been there) who will not believe that Belial is not building a nest in her sock drawer.

It would be really easy for one of us to tell these people "send me $500 over PayPal and I'll do a spell for you," but such abuse of occult knowledge would have terrible results!

[Nahemah]

This is a well thought out and very reasonable post. [thumbup]

We are a discussion forum.That is our primary purpose:to assist members in finding information and to share with and learn from each other.

Anything outside of that is entirely up to individual members and we,as an entity, are not responsible for any personal/interpersonal interactions outside of discussion,whether they are magickally inclined or otherwise.

Caveat Emptor applies.Even for free services and personal arrangements. [lookleft]

We do get requests for magickal help,certainly; and if one or more members want/s to engage with others this way it is entirely their own responsibility and concern.

We also do not promote or encourage paid for services here,as it's a moral and legal minefield to navigate and there are so many,as you so accurately pointed out,of those who are shysters and con artists and we keep business services in one folder only because of that and any other risks involved.

There are circumstances where some folk believe they are involved in something magickal when the reality is that they are not and I've often found that these people do not take it kindly when they are informed that there are mundane influences at work,rather than magickal ones.

That is a problem that they and their own egos must resolve,unfortunately.

Nobody likes to think they've been played,after all and some do not take it well at all when it is suggested that they are not such a special snowflake as they've previously been led to believe and/or that they are being manipulated by others who are using their beliefs against them for whatever reasons suit the circumstances.

But,shit happens sometimes,even to magickal folk.

I personaly rarely offer magickal assistance to anyone outside of close friends and immediate family as I'm to busy in my own life and I have neither the inclination nor the time to do so these days.

IMMV, of course,but I've learned to be wary mostly due to previous experiences.

[Marshal Law]

I strongly agree, with both of you. But need not to forget that English language is widely spread, people come from many different countries and different walks of life. Educational level differs, which leads to information limitation at some points. But hey, they come here to get guidance, so they should communicate better. I am new, but I have read few posts, lack of information in some of em. So more questions has to be asked to get a reasonable idea about the situation and so on.

"It would be really easy for one of us to tell these people "send me $500 over PayPal and I'll do a spell for you," but such abuse of occult knowledge would have terrible results!" - I actually would like to have a discussion in the future when I get more comfortable here, in my opinion it is fair to pay someone for his time if your going on a video chat or so on, person is taking his time to moderate forum, some people do not appreciate that. And you do not have to consider it as a payment, but a donation, for the time taken.

Anyways right on you 2!

[Nahemah]

Thank you Marshal Law.

I for one appreciate that we have members willing to go the extra mile and offer magickal assistance to those in need.

I just wanted to explain that this is a choice made by members and not something we expect or want to enforce in any way.

I hope that any of our members who are struggling to understand English in any of the posts will ask about them,either in the forum or by pm,I'm available to help and though my language skills are not great,we do have members who speak more than one language fluently who can also assist.

We want folk to have as easy and pleasant an experience here,as it's possible to provide. [thumbup]

I'm not in it for the money,the payback is a lively forum and a broad membership, who help each other out. [grin]

[Asurendra]

Thank you

[PrinceOfNeptune]

I agree with all of these things. Personally, I never charge for my occult services...as I feel they are a skillset I have that is meant solely to help others. I barely even like charging for my psych services in real life, but one does have to pay one's San Francisco mortgage.

[LordAnayami]

I agree with most of you. In my opinion when someone help another people, the fact of doing it is printed into subcouncious mind and matrix, and when that someone need help its more likely that he will get it. Moreover I try to help other people as best as I can, and sometimes I ask them for magical help too.
Lots of times I had too that someone said that he would help me, and the results of his helping did not shown up, so even if it do not, I still take in account that it may some mistake occured in proces
What about making list of what you can help with? It would be easier for other people, who will search for help. I'm quite good in tarot and pendulim + some teoretical knowlage

[Belial]

I agree with these points overall.One of the issues with assisting people is communication, so often a post is provided with too little information for anyone to be able to assist effectively and the individual makes a post or two and is never heard from again.This leaves us to presume either it was resolved, nothing changed, or they were dragged off into the nether by Moloch.

In other situations people often overreact and become distressed over natural matters, often rejecting mundane solutions or possibilities.In a lot of the cases otherwise though, even where there is a clear potential for serious mystical issues, people tend to be rather emotionally invested into the situations which may cause some bad judgements or panicked decisions.

On the other hand I have seen plenty of people receive advice well and seemingly follow through on the feedback they get.It seems the community generally offers assistance or counsel as best as it can, and much of the time it seems to go smoothly.Some people chime in without any interest in helping, but when those situations turn bad the Moderators take care of it.Often when I run across somebody's cry for help on the forum other members have already done a fair job addressing it, and so I don't find much need to post there.The community is awesome about that for the most part.

I think the major obstacles in helping people is communication and observation, but both sides of a situation need to work together to sort such things out.

Anyway, everybody knows it's Kali that nests in your sock drawer.Also it's important to sort out your paperwork otherwise Set will take up residence in your unorganized stacks of paper, which will violently resist efforts to sort them, even project discouraging thoughts into your mind to deter you from even trying, trust me, it's unsettling when Set settles in.Clean out your refrigerator too, ancient leftovers only serve to attract the presence of Beelzebub.

In terms of really assisting people I probably haven't been the most helpful, but I try to offer legitimate advice or share thoughts and information on appropriate occasions.Most of the time my assistance ends at advice, it's pretty rare that I get personally involved.If you help somebody too much you end up becoming a crutch and eventually an object of blame when you're not there to solve their problems, which they keep getting into if they don't learn from the experience you bail them out of.

As far as people demanding money for occult services, I see that go around a lot.I suppose I can't blame folks for seeking financial gain by dressing up their arcane arts and parading it around the street corners of the internet, whatever suits people for getting ahead or getting by.If somebody wishes to charge and somebody is willing to pay, that's their business I suppose, though I don't care much when that business gives the occult in general a bad name.

[Lucius]

As everyone else has said, I too agree.

Well, I think y'all know I do a bit on this forum in regards to helping people. Where appropriate I take on their case, it's what I do. But yes, I never do anything actually magical until I am 100% sure something magical is involved.

I feel the my perspective on this issue may be interesting for you guys so I'll go ahead and share it.

As you all know, I am a Consultant Exorcist of Scion, I try and help as many people as I can. Some one of my main places of outreach is here on this forum. Firstly, what Asurendra has said about taking money is completely true and yes Nahema, it is a legal minefield. Something I would never do.

I think often people who have problems like to read about magic and label it as a magical problem because if you think about it, it gives you power of the situation by thinking it is magical and gives you something/someone to blame. A scapegoat if you will. This isn't to say that everyone who claims to be under magical attack etc. isn't. But this situation I just described is too common to say "a small minority".

Secondly, if we look at it this way, from the forum I have taken on 6 cases, only 2 have actually been demonic and/or other related.

I think though, it is possible to help more than just discussion over the internet. One of the two cases I took on in person, the other one I did over the internet, well, astral projection. I took a beating for it (some of you might remember the one with a guy called "Shazwie" in Malaysia). But yeah, you try astrally projecting to Malaysia and maintaining it for three and a half hours Eeesh.

Anyways, yeah I think Asu covered this earlier, but why should you beat yourself up astrally projecting to convince some nutty women there's no boggart in her closet

I do think though that the "help" section on the forum is really, really, REALLY good and useful.

Well, that's my perspective on it.

[ne1]

..... Sorry, I have to say it. Lucius, you are cute and awesome. Good luck with everything you do. Cool

[Lucius]

..... Sorry, I have to say it. Lucius, you are cute and awesome. Good luck with everything you do. Cool

Apology in advance accepted XD

Thanks ha ha [thumbup]

That made me smile, I'm 17 in a few days by the way [gz] .

[PrinceOfNeptune]

I would also like to add that, sometimes, jumping right in and trying to help someone in an occult arena can be very dangerous to you as the 'helper'.

I treat patients of the psychological and spiritual variety, and I would say the grande majority of symptoms I treat via energetic healing are people who have become entrapped or harmed by trying to deal with something beyond their power, not protecting themselves properly, or becoming embroiled with bullshittery much like that which I got snappy about in the Help section a day or two ago.

Be careful out there, and also always remember that if there is something going wrong with you spiritually, don't try and fix it yourself. Find a good healer who follows any path or practice, really...and let them take care of you. Some of us have great gifts in the field and we are more than happy to repair any damage done.

(I'm also offering these services to any of you who need them, also..though if you want me to knit together flesh and bone you'll need to come to San Francisco somehow, as it requires physical touch. [bummed] )