What do you think about spirits and the after-life?

[AllSeeingGuy]

I used to be a standard atheist. You know the type, not believing in god or the afterlife, disregarding anything supernatural, conforming to a really basic materialist world-view.

Those were simpler times.

I've had a series of experiences though that have forever changed my world-view. One of them involves communicating with entities... I'm assuming they're spirits, because they had a distinctly human vibe to them, and they spoke with a variety of different accents. Like, one of them was Asian female, another was some sort of European female. When they speak, it's not like how you hear something through your ears. It's more like how you hear a song that has been stuck in your head. Like, an internal voice.

It's only happened during times of extreme stress. Euro-female was very nice, had a really warm vibe and tried to calm me down. Also sang me a lullaby-type song, sounded really nice at the time. Asian-female seemed kinda scared.

They both said things that suggested they weren't just communicating me but also sharing my body temporarily. I don't want to repeat the exact things they said, that's too personal.

I tried to ignore this experience for a long time, thinking it must just be hallucination. But... too many things bother me about it. The voices had distinct personalities, they were different genders from me (I'm male they female), they told me information I didn't know and tried to help me through difficult time.

I've never shared this with anyone because it's not acceptable to speak of such things in today's society.

Do you believe in spirits? In the after-life? I'm concerned, because what if there is an after-life and it's really shit? What could be some alternative explanation for this?

Thanks for reading my story.

[RoseRed]

I think almost everyone here understands how personal some of these things can be. The problem with not wanting to share personal information when asking questions like this is that we're not getting the whole story so how can we best help you if you're withholding information?

Sharing your body with you? That's a serious fucking problem - unless you like being Ridden, Driven or Possessed. If that's the case - have at it and enjoy it before it turns ugly. If you're not into sharing your meat suit and letting unknown spirits or entities in - then you'll need to figure out what you're speaking to and how best to protect against it.

Keep in mind that yes, spirits and entities are real. There are many that are manipulative and lie. There's usually enough truth that you'll believe the rest of it as well.

If you truly believe that you hallucinate under extreme stress - then you really need to go speak with your doctor.

If you believe that you have opened a door within yourself while under extreme stress and that spirits are talking to you - it's time to set some ground rules before you turn yourself into an all you can eat buffet.

My ideas about the afterlife have changed over the years. The more I learn and grow - the further my ideas expand. I've already died and been brought back so I have a very different view of the afterlife than most. If you're afraid of the afterlife being unpleasant - then change what you're doing in this life. It's a simple concept. I'm also a firm believer in reincarnation so if the afterlife sux - it won't for long - you'll come back.

[Sypheara]

I do believe in both spirits and an afterlife, but not in the traditional sense of the term, as the reality is far more complex than the idealised concepts often espoused.

I cant really comment on your own personal experiences, but I personally believe in an internal and external class of spirits, both are real. I am heavily against the dismissive attitude against hallucinations, which ascribe to them the fact they are 'not real' The fact they are experienced in the first place indicates that yes, they are infact VERY real, and have caused problems for many people I personally know.

These ones usually arise from our own souls, the internal ones, but that does not mean they do not have access to information that our minds may not, especially once they begin to show a certain degree of agency if they bud off from yourself and begin blurring barriers betwen external and internal spirits.

However External spirits also exist, and are able to in a form of possession enter the mind and talk exactly how you describe. Some of these spirits are responsible for our own upkeep, or attach themselves to us over a period of time as familiars and friends which we can be completely unaware of if we are not sensitive. I am not very sensitive, so its taken me awhile to begin working and differentiating between the two. Possession is not as dangerous or taboo as western thought describes, is far more common than it describes, and the two headed sort indicates that is what you may have experienced. It is something you have to pay close attention to however when it starts happening, to ensure they have benign interests. Not all spirits do. It is a state however where you can get alot of useful information out of said entities once some ground rules are established. I have only had it happen to me on maybe one or two occasions, by entities that have been straight up truthful once questioned / interrogated.

As for an afterlife, that is far, far more difficult to describe. I believe in one, but not as a plane on goes to and stays forever.. change is constant, and we flow from one state to the next. Whilst part of us definetly does survive death, it is likely to then venture through numerous planes and paths as directed by the Gods and its own will to fufil its next step in soul evolution rather than stop in one place. This is obviously highly personal, and can be a testing time as much as one of rest, just as much as life can be. Therefore it is possible that suffering awaits a soul even beyond death, as well as further pleasure. The afterlife however is not one of just constant suffering or just about 'being really shit' however, but neither is it a idealist paradise imho. Reincarnation in my view is a possibility and does occur.

Again, this is just from my own personal experience and belief system, you should explore more and find more answers for yourself. Thank you for sharing your experience, it was fun to read and reply.

PS: Didnt see RoseReds reply til just now, sorry if i've missed any points of discussion

[Circles]

I attempt to be as unassuming as possible and as such I have no opinion yet on the existence/non-existence of spirits or the afterlife. Nothing has ever spoken to me or made itself evident. I'm open to it though, if some being/deity/spirit wants to come along and join the fun/be a fuck then I'll deal with it then. I will say though, that I'd find it quite difficult at such a time not to consider psychosis/schizophrenia as a primary concern. I'd be interested in opinions on what the difference between a spirit talking to you and an auditory hallucination is and how you would identify either one in the event I'm to ever experience it.

[Afrit]

Western medicine believes that a voice heard or seen is psychosis, schizophrenia (auditory or visual hallucination) eastern medicine believes that it is one who is sensitive to spirits. Science hasn't been able to recognize magick at this point yet, but that doesn't mean it isn't real.

For example, I'd wake up with an odd pain in my back that kinda burned. After I cleansed myself through meditation and a banishing ritual, the pain would go away. This was because the pain in the base of my spine was negative energies (possibly from a wandering spirit). Not from a failing spine of an 18 yr old athletic male who was skeptical of all this to begin with.


Possession (if that's what you want to call it) isn't dangerous in the scenario you described. But that's not the point. As RoseRed pointed out, it's the fact that you are open to spiritual entities. They can piggy back on you whenever you feel like an maybe the next spirit isn't as friendly.

Anyways that my opinion from my experiences, as far as an afterlife is concerned I can't tell you what to believe. I'm in the same line of thinking as RoseRed as well in this matter. It makes sense to me that my soul will be recycled later on after I die.

[Circles]

Western medicine believes that a voice heard or seen is psychosis, schizophrenia (auditory or visual hallucination) eastern medicine believes that it is one who is sensitive to spirits. Science hasn't been able to recognize magick at this point yet, but that doesn't mean it isn't real.

For example, I'd wake up with an odd pain in my back that kinda burned. After I cleansed myself through meditation and a banishing ritual, the pain would go away. This was because the pain in the base of my spine was negative energies (possibly from a wandering spirit). Not from a failing spine of an 18 yr old athletic male who was skeptical of all this to begin with.


Possession (if that's what you want to call it) isn't dangerous in the scenario you described. But that's not the point. As RoseRed pointed out, it's the fact that you are open to spiritual entities. They can piggy back on you whenever you feel like an maybe the next spirit isn't as friendly.

Anyways that my opinion from my experiences, as far as an afterlife is concerned I can't tell you what to believe. I'm in the same line of thinking as RoseRed as well in this matter. It makes sense to me that my soul will be recycled later on after I die.

Are you saying they're the same thing?

If your soul is recycled, but "you" are not "you" or are at least unable to recognize yourself/spirit/soul as such is that still an afterlife? For example, is being cow shit the afterlife of grass?

[Afrit]

My point in labeling schools of thought is to show that these things are extremely subjective, like I said in my post, these are my experiences, I believe them to be true. To label one school of thought to be absolutely indisputably true whether it be through arrogance or ignorance is the equivalent of schools of thought in most organized religions we see today. If one was to believe their way of seeing as the only truth, the "truth" could hit them square in the face and they wouldn't recognize it as such. Close mindedness is a poison.

As far as reincarnation is concerned, it is entirely up to you to believe in a system based off of karma, or chance, or ones own desire. It could be as literal as grass turning to shit or something a little more creative, go for it. It's your belief system not mine, all I can do is tell you what I believe and why. It doesn't mean I'm right or unwilling to see it all from a different point of view.

[Circles]

I wasn't really asking for the truth, just exploring your belief system. The more belief systems I can integrate the more tools I have at my disposal if such a time comes that I need to use them. There are a great number of beliefs I could attribute to any of my experiences, each with their own nuance and application thanks for humoring me.

[Afrit]

That a very good way to see it. Just don't integrate too much, cotta fictions could occur and that just messes with your head. If you have any questions or need a brain to pick send me a pm.

[AllSeeingGuy]

K guys thanks for your replies. Some interesting things to consider.

I will say though, that I'd find it quite difficult at such a time not to consider psychosis/schizophrenia as a primary concern. I'd be interested in opinions on what the difference between a spirit talking to you and an auditory hallucination is and how you would identify either one in the event I'm to ever experience it.

I've been to doctors. I don't have schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is far more than just hearing voices, it's a complex condition with many different aspects to it. From what schizos have told me, when they hear voices it's as if someone is physically talking to them - like through their ears, rather than an internal voice. You know how your internal narrator sounds to you? That's how spirits talk. It's not auditory hallucination. Also spirits can tell you useful information. They can tell you things that are going to happen before they happen. Schizo voices generally aren't helpful.

Sharing your body with you? That's a serious fucking problem - unless you like being Ridden, Driven or Possessed. If that's the case - have at it and enjoy it before it turns ugly. If you're not into sharing your meat suit and letting unknown spirits or entities in - then you'll need to figure out what you're speaking to and how best to protect against it.

Well, it's only really happened once - where they've directly spoken to me. I definitely don't want to share my meat suit. How do I protect against it? I guess what concerns me is now that I'm open to such things, I'm worried they could sneakily manipulate me without me realizing it.

[Circles]

edit: derailing the thread.. Apologies OP I'll let this get back on topic and take it to PM.

[Circles]

I guess what concerns me is now that I'm open to such things, I'm worried they could sneakily manipulate me without me realizing it.

Are you easily manipulated by normal people? I suppose that's a difficult question to answer as someone who is easily manipulated may not be aware that they're easily manipulated but none the less.. I'm going to take a leap with the following paradigm because it's not something I'd normally operate under so take this with a grain of salt.

Is it possible to redesign your belief such that the "external" entity actually becomes an extension of you which you can then integrate in a fashion that gives you authority? After all, the thing is in your head and if someone wants to step on your turf then they're forced to play by your rules - people are limited in that they can't comprehend or function outside of their own current comprehension. The entity is forced to get on your level to communicate as it is.

[Sypheara]

It depends on the type and force of the possession. In full body possession the spirit entirely displaces the medium, who will not even necesaarily be aware its happened. This is similar to what is seen in multiple personality disorder.

Either internal or external spirits can dominate the mind if they are stronger than that persons main personality or being and then assume control of the body. It is arrogance and highly patronising to those who struggle with either types in their daily lives to suggest its all just in the mind / entirely within their control.

It is possbile for spirits to manipulate, that is what the weaker ones do. They plant suggestions when you are more susceptible rather than attempt possession. Analysing your own thoughts for odd thought patterns and abstaining from activities / places that harbohr them and cleansing oneself reduces their impacts. These are the ones that you have most control over due to their subtle methods.

[Circles]

It is arrogance and highly patronising to those who struggle with either types in their daily lives to suggest its all just in the mind / entirely within their control.

Is this in response to what I typed?

[RoseRed]

Sharing your body with you? That's a serious fucking problem - unless you like being Ridden, Driven or Possessed. If that's the case - have at it and enjoy it before it turns ugly. If you're not into sharing your meat suit and letting unknown spirits or entities in - then you'll need to figure out what you're speaking to and how best to protect against it.

Well, it's only really happened once - where they've directly spoken to me. I definitely don't want to share my meat suit. How do I protect against it? I guess what concerns me is now that I'm open to such things, I'm worried they could sneakily manipulate me without me realizing it.

The first thing I would do is get a hematite necklace and hang it around your neck. The stone has it's own inherent properties being made in majority of iron. The intention and physical declaration (putting the necklace on)of 'stay out' will most likely be noticed.

Find a pdf of Dion Fortune's Psychic Self Defense. (I really need to read this someday)

You didn't say where this happened but claim and shield your space - especially your bedroom.



Congrats on knowing it's something to be concerned about and realizing that spirits/entities can indeed be very manipulative. Until you have a chance to do some studying and practicing (which I suggest you begin very soon) I would try to avoid another interaction.

[Sypheara]

It is arrogance and highly patronising to those who struggle with either types in their daily lives to suggest its all just in the mind / entirely within their control.

Is this in response to what I typed?

Nope, its just something that irritates me generally so it slipped into my response~ probably prompted by the 'external' in quotes because I feel its kind of my duty as an occultist to continually reinforce it has physical reality and must be treated with respect. In many modern paths etc the occult has become like self help, insular, and egotistical in the power it awards to human will whilst marginalising the spirits and robbing them of their agency. This is a potentially dangerous mistake to make.

[Circles]

It is arrogance and highly patronising to those who struggle with either types in their daily lives to suggest its all just in the mind / entirely within their control.

Is this in response to what I typed?

Nope, its just something that irritates me generally so it slipped into my response~ probably prompted by the 'external' in quotes because I feel its kind of my duty as an occultist to continually reinforce it has physical reality and must be treated with respect. In many modern paths etc the occult has become like self help, insular, and egotistical in the power it awards to human will whilst marginalising the spirits and robbing them of their agency. This is a potentially dangerous mistake to make.

That's quite the responsibility to take on. Thanks for the warning.

[RoseRed]

Sypheara - because I feel its kind of my duty as an occultist to continually reinforce it has physical reality and must be treated with respect.

Circles - That's quite the responsibility to take on.

It truly is. Calling's and Duty can royally suck at times. I'm sure this isn't taken real well in most places.

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

When I really think about it my experiences may have started in earnest during my atheist/agnostic times. I had a particular job right out of college where they refused to train me, it was a month before I was fired and during the third week when I knew my world was burning down and there was nothing I could do about it I was racking my brain and panicking at my desk when the image of a girl from school showed up in my head in a really playful manner and started lip-synching a song that was stuck in my head. I really had attributed that to just a protective mechanism of my brain sort of forcing me into something of a narcotic daydream when I was practically fantasizing about slitting my own throat.

I had a few other episodes during that time where very strange things got a hold of me that should have struck me as supernatural - ie. being out of town on another job, a friend, a girl he was dating, and some punk of a friend she had who wanted to start a fight in a restaurant just because they had their heads up their asses. I walked outside, changed the odds, they had to follow me out and were pissed at me about it but that next Monday it was as if something tried to force me to kiss the AP supervisor who was in her 50's, not particularly attractive, and something really bizarre was being manipulated in how I saw things out of the corner of my eyes.Clearly I didn't give into it, it was enough of a nightmare even without that, I knew that something was really wrong and assumed that something in my own subconscious mind was trying to force me to crack - as of now I'd probably reclassify this as something of a demonic attack; ie. two law school students and a school teacher were likely supposed to lose their futures that weekend before and something was likely pretty pissed at me for interceding.

Last year was really when I know for absolute certain that I met something. My atheism ended in April of 2012 when I discovered the uncanny stretches of odds on what was being seen in near death experiences, I had to roll back my assumption at the time of full-determinist atheism, and at the same time I ended up exploring a lot of new age material simply because when one connects the dots this is where it goes. That got imbalanced, that lead me to really doubt the ascended masters and such which then lead me to Steve Quayle, Tom Horn, Chris Putnam, and the avante gard Christian spiritual warfare camp in December of 2012. That's about the time when the supernatural kicked in. I read the bible a couple times through in the course of six months, I was trying to sort out all the holes and disturbing things I was seeing in it, and all the while something very feminine seemed to be trying to comfort me and even seemed to be play-slapping me on the shoulder like she was trying her best to lead me away from religious fundamentalism in as gentle a manner as she could. I'd feel bursts of euphoria at odd times at work, if I started contemplating whether Hermeticism was the real 'it' that love she was projecting over me just amplified off the charts - almost like a candyflip (E's and acid) but with the physical and emotional sensations but not being f'd up and organized in an incredibly pointed and sentient manner. I decided to read Manly P Hall's 'Secret Teachings of All the Ages' and when I got to the Isis part of the book something hit me of the likes that hasn't before or since just on reading a book.

June of last year was when the part of me that was really stubborn about trying to hold on to or maintain whatever shreds of proper Christianity I still could with the facts in that dirction still dissolving under me and close to gone I decided to have a psychedelic encounter - ie. break out the DXM and to give myself to Isis for a day to find out who she was in her terms, ie. there seemed to be a lot of evidence to me that she was showing up around the world a lot as either Mary or Mother Ayahuasca and I really wanted to know what was happening or why 'pagan' deities were doing such a wonderful job of espousing technically what I thought to be Christian-like values (warning people of the underworld for misconduct in life and whatever else).

That week was like no other I've had in my life. The psychedelic experience was one thing, the next two weeks my psychic body was so alive that I could feel entities anywhere within two or three feet so intensely that I could probe out what they looked like and so many other things about them even if I couldn't see them. I generally had ecstatic currents flowing all over my body, something that had come up off and on from the winter forward but now it was full blast, I'd get ringing and popping in one ear or the other that seemed to be very methodical as if timed to certain thought processes, and there was a blend of entities I ran into - one one hand this was when I ran into what may very well have been succubi but on the other hand I met some incredibly gentle and benevolent beings also, woke up one night and felt like my heart was wrapped in swaddling cloth a bit as if Mother Mary was holding Jesus, another time when I was laying in bed and what very well could have been a feminine impression of my own higher self was very warmly giggling at me - in a very buddhistic manner as if she was amused by the courage I was showing in that I was doing one of those things that would be classed as incredibly stupid but daring in the sense that it had to be done, I needed to know the truth, and that particular experience was vivid in the extreme and I've never felt an energy quite as sweet, pure, or intense as that before or since.

After February 2013 I could say that my psychic body was waking up, that seems to be the most appropriate parlance, and while feeling full-scale contact with entities has receded I have had a few brushes where I ran entities either in those border states between wake and sleep, at least daily (particularly when I do the BOTA Pattern on the Tresselboard which I made my own visualization for in moving energy) I'll feel ecstatic movements in my psychic body, occasionally at times I'll also at the right times feel something deeply caring for me interject its love, particularly if my line of self-inquiry goes caustic as a reminder to be compassionate with myself, and I think most people have felt presences, pats on the back or things of that nature at certain times in life but just wrote it off as their imagination (usually its something that takes a physical stimulus you already have like the fabric of the shirt on your back and conspicuously intensifies that sense of touch as if a personal energetic field was adding its own energy to that physical contact) - that's also something that I had in my atheist days but again - I know better than to simply think its my own mind making things up.

Do I believe in a life after death? I can't prove that I'll exist when I die but I do have plenty of reason to believe in noncorporeal intelligence and its tough to count how many people have brought up the important point, particularly MP Hall and Papus, that it would make no sense whatsoever for nature to cause development of beings, personality, etc. and then just have it eradicate. The way nature viciously conserves energy it's strange enough for human levels of sentience to occur and disappear if the universe had no sentience whatsoever but it sounds even less plausible if we have contact with beings, archetypes, etc. and particularly when we have things in us - whether biases, impulses, etc.. - that we simply can't explain quite often by our developmental experiences. For corporeal life to be a closed circuit there's just too much that doesn't add up.

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

When I really think about it my experiences may have started in earnest during my atheist/agnostic times. I had a particular job right out of college where they refused to train me, it was a month before I was fired and during the third week when I knew my world was burning down and there was nothing I could do about it I was racking my brain and panicking at my desk when the image of a girl from school showed up in my head in a really playful manner and started lip-synching a song that was stuck in my head. I really had attributed that to just a protective mechanism of my brain sort of forcing me into something of a narcotic daydream when I was practically fantasizing about slitting my own throat.

I had a few other episodes during that time where very strange things got a hold of me that should have struck me as supernatural - ie. being out of town on another job and on the weekend between on my stay I met up with a friend, a girl he was dating, and that night we were out with some punk of a friend she had who wanted to start a fight in a restaurant just because they had their heads up their asses and her friend wanted to pick a fight with a group of five or six other guys and girls who were in the restaurant over sports. I walked outside, changed the odds, they had to follow me out and were pissed at me about it but that next Monday it was as if something tried to force me to kiss the AP supervisor who was in her 50's, not particularly attractive, and something really bizarre was being manipulated in how I saw things out of the corner of my eyes.Clearly I didn't give into it, it was enough of a nightmare even without that, I knew that something was really wrong and assumed that something in my own subconscious mind was trying to force me to crack - as of now I'd probably reclassify this as something of a demonic attack; ie. two law school students and a school teacher were likely supposed to lose their futures on assault charges that weekend before and something was likely pretty pissed at me for interceding.

Last year (2013) was really when I know for absolute certain that I met something. My atheism ended in April of 2012 when I discovered the uncanny stretches of odds on what was being seen in near death experiences, I had to roll back my assumption at the time of full-determinist atheism, and at the same time I ended up exploring a lot of new age material simply because when one connects the dots this is where it goes. That got imbalanced, that lead me to really doubt the ascended masters and such which then lead me to Steve Quayle, Tom Horn, Chris Putnam, and the avante gard Christian spiritual warfare camp in December of 2012. That's about the time when the supernatural kicked in. I read the bible a couple times through in the course of six months, I was trying to sort out all the holes and disturbing things I was seeing in it, and all the while something very feminine seemed to be trying to comfort me and even seemed to be play-slapping me on the shoulder like she was trying her best to lead me away from religious fundamentalism in as gentle a manner as she could. I'd feel bursts of euphoria from a nurturing force at odd times at work, if I started contemplating whether Hermeticism was the real 'it' that love she was projecting over me just amplified off the charts - almost like a candyflip (E's and acid) but with the physical and emotional sensations but not being f'd up and organized in an incredibly pointed and sentient manner. I decided to read Manly P Hall's 'Secret Teachings of All the Ages' and when I got to the Isis part of the book something hit me of the likes that hasn't before or since just on reading a book.

June of last year was when the part of me that was really stubborn about trying to hold on to or maintain whatever shreds of proper Christianity I still could with the facts in that dirction still dissolving under me and close to gone I decided to have a psychedelic encounter - ie. break out the DXM and to give myself to Isis for a day to find out who she was in her terms, ie. there seemed to be a lot of evidence to me that she was showing up around the world a lot as either Mary or Mother Ayahuasca and I really wanted to know what was happening or why 'pagan' deities were doing such a wonderful job of espousing technically what I thought to be Christian-like values (warning people of the underworld for misconduct in life and whatever else).

That week was like no other I've had in my life. The psychedelic experience was one thing, the next two weeks my psychic body was so alive that I could feel entities anywhere within two or three feet so intensely that I could probe out what they looked like and so many other things about them even if I couldn't see them. I generally had ecstatic currents flowing all over my body, something that had come up off and on from the winter forward but now it was full blast, I'd get ringing and popping in one ear or the other that seemed to be very methodical as if timed to certain thought processes, and there was a blend of entities I ran into - one one hand this was when I ran into what may very well have been succubi but on the other hand I met some incredibly gentle and benevolent beings also, woke up one night and felt like my heart was wrapped in swaddling cloth a bit as if Mother Mary was holding Jesus, another time when I was laying in bed and what very well could have been a feminine impression of my own higher self was very warmly giggling at me - in a very buddhistic manner as if she was amused by the courage I was showing in that I was doing one of those things that would be classed as incredibly stupid but daring in the sense that it had to be done, I needed to know the truth, and that particular experience was vivid in the extreme and I've never felt an energy quite as sweet, pure, or intense as that before or since.

After February 2013 I could say that my psychic body was waking up, that seems to be the most appropriate parlance, and while feeling full-scale contact with entities has receded I have had a few brushes where I ran entities either in those border states between wake and sleep, at least daily (particularly when I do the BOTA Pattern on the Tresselboard which I made my own visualization for in moving energy) I'll feel ecstatic movements in my psychic body, occasionally at times I'll also at the right times feel something deeply caring for me interject its love, particularly if my line of self-inquiry goes caustic as a reminder to be compassionate with myself, and I think most people have felt presences, pats on the back or things of that nature at certain times in life but just wrote it off as their imagination (usually its something that takes a physical stimulus you already have like the fabric of the shirt on your back and conspicuously intensifies that sense of touch as if a personal energetic field was adding its own energy to that physical contact) - that's also something that I had in my atheist days but again - I know better than to simply think its my own mind making things up.

Do I believe in a life after death? I can't prove that I'll exist when I die but I do have plenty of reason to believe in noncorporeal intelligence and its tough to count how many people have brought up the important point, particularly MP Hall and Papus, that it would make no sense whatsoever for nature to cause development of beings, personality, etc. and then just have it eradicate. The way nature viciously conserves energy it's strange enough for human levels of sentience to occur and disappear if the universe had no sentience whatsoever but it sounds even less plausible if we have contact with beings, archetypes, etc. and particularly when we have things in us - whether biases, impulses, etc.. - that we simply can't explain quite often by our developmental experiences. For corporeal life to be a closed circuit there's just too much that doesn't add up and for noncorporeal intelligence to abound it seems even more suggestive that if other things don't need bodies for their consciousness to exist, what would necessitate bodies for consciousness in our case?

[Sypheara]

Out of all the posts to double post! Haha.

Thanks for sharing that, that was an amazing read.

[Asurendra]

I would answer this with the following Gedankenexperiment (I use this word as an homage to Ramscha):

Think back to your earliest memory, and follow this with remembering a moment from when you were just beginning high school. Then, recapture other moments along the time-line of your life: a night in college, a wedding or a funeral. Think of how much you have changed through your life, how your views and reactions are different. Then remember emotional highs and lows as well as what it was like to be groggy and to be drunk. The final part of this is to notice how your body changes over time.

All these transformations and shifts but one thing is NEVER effected: your awareness. This awareness, the experient, at the core of all of what is put together into the package that is called 'you' does not change under any circumstance. This being the case, why should the change called 'death' effect it?

In the Bhagavad-gita (Chapter 2) Lord Krishna says, “As a man casting away worn-out garments takes on new ones, so the dweller in the body, casting away worn-out bodies, takes on others that are new. Weapons cannot cut him, nor can fire burn him, water cannot make him wet nor can wind dry him. The atman (the experient or awareness from our experiment above) cannot be cut; he cannot be burned; he cannot be wetted nor can he be dried. He is eternal, all pervading, stable, immovable and primeval...Death is indeed certain for the born and birth is certain for the dead; therefore, you should not grieve over the inevitable.”

[Circles]

This being the case, why should the change called 'death' effect it?

Maybe in the event that the awareness you're referring to requires a brain to exist?

[Frumens]

This being the case, why should the change called 'death' effect it?

Maybe in the event that the awareness you're referring to requires a brain to exist?

Nope. In Hinduism awareness is the source of the brain, not the other way around. You are pure awareness, not a brain.

[Circles]

This being the case, why should the change called 'death' effect it?

Maybe in the event that the awareness you're referring to requires a brain to exist?

Nope. In Hinduism awareness is the source of the brain, not the other way around. You are pure awareness, not a brain.

I was just offering an alternative. I'm yet to experience, as far as I'm aware, the existence of awareness without my brain. I have no way currently to discern whether or not any of my experiences to date are occurring or could be occurring if I didn't have a brain. Not to say they can't, just that I'm yet to find a way to know explicitly whether it is possible.