Questions regarding scrying with water

[etrnldance]

For some time, I've wanted to get into (what I consider to be) a more direct and broad form of divination, specifically, scrying into a quartz sphere, or into water. I've thought that I might have a natural knack for scrying because throughout my life images/stories in the clouds appear, faces and such in the grain of floorboards and trees catch my eyes, and so on. Recently, after coming to a better understanding of my own desires and will, I decided to take up the art of scrying.

A little less than a year ago, I practiced scrying with my quartz sphere for a few weeks. I experienced little progress other than entering a very enjoyable trance state which I did not wish to leave, and so I gave up on it rather quickly--this I realize was a mistake, as I'm sure, given a couple months time, something would've yielded to my persistence. Last week, I chose to attempt it again, as since that last time I have developed spiritually in a few areas which I believed would aid the attempt. I set up a bowl with some charcoal to burn mugwort, sat down with some mugwort tea that I began sipping, and began the adventure. As soon as I started I smelled something burning. I looked to the bowl (which hitherto I hadn't use to hold burning charcoal) and saw that it singed my rug underneath; I love that rug so, distracted and in a slight frenzy, I went and put out the charcoal with water. Forget the rug! Now I have an awesome dark water mixture that seems perfect for scrying in, and so I took that as a sign that that's the direction I should go. Hah! I sat down (without the burning mugwort), entered a relaxed state, and gazed into the dark pool of charcoal-water. I asked and focused on a question while continuing to gaze. For fifteen to twenty minutes, images all of sorts came to me through the swirling water, many of which I recorded in my Journal, but most of which didn't seemed to answer my question(s)...there were probably a total of fifteen to twenty images, and most of them seemed to be Lower Astral images. There was one point in the stream of images where I got aroused unexpectedly and I asked the question "how am I feeling right now"...a vision immediately appeared of me in third-person behind my shoulder having sex with someone. Success! lol

As a result of this experience, I have two questions I'm wondering about:

First, how do I train myself to get answers to the questions I ask rather than getting *seemingly* arbitrary images (which, in themselves, are highly amusing and interesting)? Am I deluded and misunderstanding the images? Perhaps they are the answers?

And secondly, is this common in training oneself to scry? I was expecting something more akin to remote-viewing of the future, rather than symbols, but is that another thing altogether, or is that what can be expected in scrying for answers to questions?

Thank you guys for any insights.

[RoseRed]

Yes, it's normal. Most people cannot get the visions the 'want' but what 'whatever it is that's out there' wants you to see.

You see things in trees and you saw things in charcoal water. Crystals are of the Earth Element. The Chinese classify Wood as it's own Element. Perhaps you have a better link to wood than to water or stone. Learning to work with your natural abilities instead of trying to force your desired way of working will give you much better results.

If you truly have a talent for scrying - you don't need the mugwort.

If you're getting messages in images instead of a flowing picture (like a movie) then you're going to have to learn to decipher/interpret the symbols.

[Shinichi]

If you haven't had extensive training in Mental Discipline or learned the Language of Symbolism, you probably shouldn't be messing with scrying and magic mirrors.

But I doubt that will stop you.

For a traditional look at magic mirrors, Initiation Into Hermetics by Franz Bardon teaches this in Step 8 I think. Poke Runyon also developed a psychological method of using magic mirrors, revolving around hypnosis. He has a book on it I think, but I can't recall the title and such. And of course, there's A Short Course on Scryingby Benjamin Rowe, which you should consider working through even if you don't pursue the other two methods.



~:Shin:~

[etrnldance]

Yes, it's normal. Most people cannot get the visions the 'want' but what 'whatever it is that's out there' wants you to see.

You see things in trees and you saw things in charcoal water. Crystals are of the Earth Element. The Chinese classify Wood as it's own Element. Perhaps you have a better link to wood than to water or stone. Learning to work with your natural abilities instead of trying to force your desired way of working will give you much better results.

If you truly have a talent for scrying - you don't need the mugwort.

If you're getting messages in images instead of a flowing picture (like a movie) then you're going to have to learn to decipher/interpret the symbols.

Thanks RoseRed for the reply. I hadn't noticed that I passed over an open opportunity by moving toward more culturally obvious methods. I appreciate you pointing that out... I oftentimes trust tradition over my own self, but I'm working on that.

Are there people who only receive symbols, as opposed to flowing pictures, or does it tend to be a mixture of both? I'll try out the wood-scrying method sometime in the next week or so and post results here.

[etrnldance]

If you haven't had extensive training in Mental Discipline or learned the Language of Symbolism, you probably shouldn't be messing with scrying and magic mirrors.

But I doubt that will stop you.

For a traditional look at magic mirrors, Initiation Into Hermetics by Franz Bardon teaches this in Step 8 I think. Poke Runyon also developed a psychological method of using magic mirrors, revolving around hypnosis. He has a book on it I think, but I can't recall the title and such. And of course, there's A Short Course on Scryingby Benjamin Rowe, which you should consider working through even if you don't pursue the other two methods.

http://www.occultforum.org/forum/postin ... 0&p=488073#

~:Shin:~

Thanks for your response Shinichi. I suppose I wouldn't call my training with Mental discipline "extensive", but it's hard to know what is enough. By that I mean, I have worked the first two steps in Bardon's IIH and am capable of following my thoughts indefinitely, maintaining concentration for up to forty-five minutes when I am regularly doing concentration exercises, and can maintain a mostly empty mind for about fifteen to twenty minutes. I certainly can improve these. What length of time spent with these things would you consider to be sufficient? I've been exploring Rowe's book on scrying for the past two to three weeks. It's a wonderful resource.

I am going to continue to work with scrying, and specifically attempt scrying with trees, as I commented to RoseRed, though I appreciate the recommendations and warning.


To RoseRed and Shinichi: what is your preferred scrying medium (if you have one), and how long have you been scrying for?

[RoseRed]

That depends on the person.

Fire. Decades.

[Shinichi]

Thanks for your response Shinichi. I suppose I wouldn't call my training with Mental discipline "extensive", but it's hard to know what is enough. By that I mean, I have worked the first two steps in Bardon's IIH and am capable of following my thoughts indefinitely, maintaining concentration for up to forty-five minutes when I am regularly doing concentration exercises, and can maintain a mostly empty mind for about fifteen to twenty minutes. I certainly can improve these. What length of time spent with these things would you consider to be sufficient? I've been exploring Rowe's book on scrying for the past two to three weeks. It's a wonderful resource.

I am going to continue to work with scrying, and specifically attempt scrying with trees, as I commented to RoseRed, though I appreciate the recommendations and warning.

That actually is probably better than sufficient to begin. I'm impressed. One more point would be to not neglect the Character Development in that training, which Bardon offers as the Soul Mirrors and such. Whatever fear and weakness you fail to conquer on your own, you will eventually face it quite literally and quite directly with scrying and similar work.

what is your preferred scrying medium (if you have one), and how long have you been scrying for?

I rarely use mediums, unless you count the back of my eyelids; but I can often see with my eyes open too. I didn't really consider it related scrying until recently, but I've had a certain degree of clairvoyance since childhood.



~:Shin:~

[etrnldance]

Thanks for your response Shinichi. I suppose I wouldn't call my training with Mental discipline "extensive", but it's hard to know what is enough. By that I mean, I have worked the first two steps in Bardon's IIH and am capable of following my thoughts indefinitely, maintaining concentration for up to forty-five minutes when I am regularly doing concentration exercises, and can maintain a mostly empty mind for about fifteen to twenty minutes. I certainly can improve these. What length of time spent with these things would you consider to be sufficient? I've been exploring Rowe's book on scrying for the past two to three weeks. It's a wonderful resource.

I am going to continue to work with scrying, and specifically attempt scrying with trees, as I commented to RoseRed, though I appreciate the recommendations and warning.

That actually is probably better than sufficient to begin. I'm impressed. One more point would be to not neglect the Character Development in that training, which Bardon offers as the Soul Mirrors and such. Whatever fear and weakness you fail to conquer on your own, you will eventually face it quite literally and quite directly with scrying and similar work.

what is your preferred scrying medium (if you have one), and how long have you been scrying for?

I rarely use mediums, unless you count the back of my eyelids; but I can often see with my eyes open too. I didn't really consider it related scrying until recently, but I've had a certain degree of clairvoyance since childhood.



~:Shin:~

That's excellent synchronistic timing... I've recently been realizing the incredible importance of working with the Soul Mirrors and how they're a necessary part in my occult progress. Thanks for the response. Did your clarevoyance naturally develop, or was it something you did or experienced as a child?

[araignee]

The only advice we can give you is to use a mighty Oracle spirit (such as Vassago - Goetic) or any other reliable Oracle spirit.

Build a relationship with the spirit, and ask it to assist you in your Scrying. Ditch the Mugwort, rather opt for Frankincence and the Goetic Sigil you place underneath the Scrying bowl etc etc.

Black ink can be used just as effective as any other medium. Remember to keep the water pure - like rainwater. Never add salt.

Try to spend more time in your Gnosism (trance) before attempting your Scrying. You must be clear with your intent as to what you want to scry about - otherwise you will get gibberish.