my response to Nahemah's very public accusations

[RoseRed]

I read Nahemah's responses in the 2 closed threads yesterday and have given my reply considerable consideration. I spent 2 hours this morning replying to these severe public accusations that have been leveled against me and the post disappeared. I'm not going to take that much time again and post quotes and whatnot. We all know what's going on here. I don't think it's necessary to try to rewrite it all - although it was quite helpful in putting my thoughts in order.

Nahemah, are you trying to demean me or smear my reputation?

Because you have, once again, misinterpreted what you read in a thread (or in this case - 2 threads).

I'll begin with the Apple Love Spell thread. http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 7&start=25 I didn't actually see the irony until you pointed it out. The references that Raistlin used were neo-wiccan (fluff, RHP, Wiccan psycho babble). Instead of assuming the worst of me you coulda just asked. Obviously, these are the areas that R has studied so far. Why would I not give a reference that he's obviously familiar with? Besides, Buckland's big blue book is an excellent primer on practical magic if the practitioner can separate the dogma from the practical craft.

I truly had no intentions of sharing any information until I realized that R was going to go full bore looking for answers until he found them. You act as if there is something wrong with warning a person that they're behavior is potentially harmful. I don't want to see him get his ass kicked. I thought I was clear in saying that I believed he would continue until he found the answers he was looking for.

And just as I said to R - I'll say to you - you do not dictate what I do with what is mine. I have worked very hard for the knowledge that I have. I will share it when and with whom I choose.

The Koetting thread with Magari is much more involved than the above. http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 0&start=75

And to answer you question directly - no, I was in no way attempting to demean his character. We weren't debating - we were conversing - these is a difference.

I also agree that in this specific thread there was not justification for the recommendation to seek professional help. You must realize that we have been having forum wide ongoing conversations and speaking privately in pm. The reason that this didn't turn into a flame war is because we are both adults and have hammered out a respect for each other.

Magari may have walked the Path of a Soldier but, he is also a Warrior. We don't turn our backs on each other. Period.

Many people who do not walk this same path do not understand the conversation we have. They may be uncomfortable to others. Brutal Honestly does that. I don't think you realize that I gave him the Respect and Honor of being Honest with him. I have no inclination towards game playing - as you have implied here. And you do know me better than that.

I don't know how much experience you have with Gifted and Talented Combat Vets. I'm going to assume not much. My personal experience in this is familial. To be perfectly frank - I have very little experience with this LEVEL of Talent in a combat vet. This is why I practically begged him to speak with my friend who does - who can help him to put these experiences in perspective, who can speak to him of the Male Mysteries.

Magari has the markings of a practitioner. He's walked through his own personal Tour of Hell. He's met one of the Guardians of the Abyss - on the Guardians terms. These can be overwhelming events. Especially, while working through the issues and traumatization of combat simultaneously. His Gifts and Talents are barely controlled right now - they've exploded onto the scene (and he is trying very hard to control them - which is commendable.) Hell has a habit of doing that to people. Why do you think Shin and I took so much time with him?

I would also like to explain this thing about the word child - which is not the word I used. He called me on treating him like a child. I gave him the Honor and Respect of owning up to it. I made no excuses. I did not backpeddle. We discussed it. We got past it. After giving that specific part of the conversation much consideration I shared something very personal from my Family Tradition. Magari understands full well ranking systems. You took offense to something that he did not because he understood what I was saying. I don't think you did. In my Family Tradition the word Childe is used to describe someone new to these Paths. It is not a derogatory word.

I still stand by what I said. I do think he needs professional help. I fully believe that he needs to work out his issues before he jumps headfirst into Occult Studies. He is not stable right now and dropping hallucinogenics only makes it worse. This is common sense advice that I've seen you give to people. Suddenly, it's a problem? This is not based on a singular conversation from the Keotting thread. This was based on forum wide conversations and private communications that have been ongoing.

So, what I'm going to do here is PM this post to the people involved in these conversations. I have no need of sneaking around behind anyone's back. I do believe, however, that these allegations against me do require a response.

What happens next is fully up to you, Nahemah. You can delete my response and pretend it never existed. You can ban me (although, that's ompletely unnecessary). The way I look at forums is simple. Occult Forum is your house. I'm your guest here. If you don't want me to be here simply say so. I'll leave quietly, wish everyone here well and go on with my life. There is no need for anger or arguing or the big bad ban hammer.

I just hope that you actually take the time to consider my words before you jump into any decisions.

[Ramscha]

It makes me sad that things always seem to end like this here when conversations come to the highest levels that one party seems to take a leave after that. However, it is no cuddle session either, I suppose I grasp what is going on.

It is not my decision to make whatever happens next, no matter the opinion I have. I just hope that all sides reconsider their actions and responsiblities to each other.

However things turn out, you know my opinion about you, Rose, even if I pressed it into one short sentence. I don't change my opinions on people just because of forum episode like that, I hope you know that.

Was my pleasure

Ramscha

[RoseRed]

To be perfectly honest - I like it here. I'd rather not leave but as this is Nahemah's house - I will respect her wishes - however she decides.

And you're right. This is an ongoing pattern. You're not the only one that's seen that.

Ramscha - you have my Respect as well. You may not be the easiest person to get to know but is has been my honor and pleasure speaking with you.

[manonthepath]

To be perfectly honest - I like it here. I'd rather not leave but as this is Nahemah's house - I will respect her wishes - however she decides.

And you're right. This is an ongoing pattern. You're not the only one that's seen that.

Ramscha - you have my Respect as well. You may not be the easiest person to get to know but is has been my honor and pleasure speaking with you.

I enjoy having you around too Rosered. I hope you will continue to share your wisdom here. You are needed.

[Shinichi]

My opinion, for whatever it is worth, is that moderation (like any form of arbitration) requires a careful insight into the perspectives of everyone involved in any given situation. A certain empathy helps, but at the end of the day it is a simple matter to put myself in someone else's perspective even without breaking out the occult skills that make doing so literal.

There is indeed a difference between an intense personality and outright rudeness, as there is also a difference between an intense discussion and a mud slinging flame war. An arbiter needs to know these differences and pay attention to them, lest personal standards interfere with the work of balancing every one else's standards.



~:Shin:~

[manonthepath]

Perhaps the time for healing and growth are upon us?

[RoseRed]

I know it is for me.

[magari]

For the record.

I have nothing against Shin or RR.

I feel like every word was justified on both ends of the conversation.

There were emotions, but removing those from such topics is impossible.

I walked away from that one with respect for everyone involved.

Maybe its just me, but its hard to learn the most important lessons without a little bit of emotional turmoil.

[Nahemah]

This thread is now closed and there will be no further public discussion of moderation or policies, this notice is issued, pending further discussion by administrators. Further breach of the rules system may result in infractions.

Accordingly, all or any queries regarding this matter should be directed through the PM system as previously requested.

[Nahemah]

The comments by staff in the threads and their closing are justified, necessary and in accordance with our moderation policies and posting rules.

This thread is an unwarranted personal attack and as such was closed in accordance with our policies.

Please also be aware that no staff member has altered or otherwise interfered with any part of any of Rosered's posts; either in this topic or in any other threads or posts made by this member.
Vashta, as primary Administrator, can access all other staff members actions on the forum and meticulously checks the logs when any such accusations are levelled against any staff member. Always.

Despite requesting pm communication, none has been forthcoming and in light of this fact, it has been decided that adjudication would be made public.

An infraction has been issued and staff would like to take this opportunity to remind all members that we hold certain baseline standards regarding discussion and commentary on this forum. These terms are non negotiable and breaches will be taken into consideration and acted upon as staff see fit.

Terms and conditions are viewable by clicking the 'terms and conditions' link in the bottom left side of the front page. We strongly recommend all members aquaint themselves with these terms and all or any claims of ignorance will not be acceptable, as staff will post this link for members where there are breaches made, before any infractions get issued.

Do not post public threads attacking staff for moderation decisions made against you or and do not ignore requests for pm communications,when issued in thread, as this only escalates matters further.

We would further appreciate full co-operation of all members on this issue and in all or any other matters of administration and moderation on this forum.

Vashta and Nahemah.