Search for New Magic: Affecting cells and regeneration

[Evander]

Amorte,

Ok now this is somewhat ridiculous.
There are numerous works based on antiquity and medieval time periods in occult mainstream.
Most of these concern with killing enemies, finding treasures and getting rich, causing love, summoning devils and what-not.

20th century has been around for a while and many great scientific discoveries have been made. Great progress in almost every field of human science was achieved.
Now it's 21st century and more great inventions are on their way.

But magic. What of it?
We have a cornucopia of scientific knowledge available few clicks away and yet there seem to be no serious discussion and study dedicated to finding a way to affect physical body on a cellular level directly, either by meditation, ritual or energy manipulation means.

Myself, I am a natural born psionic entity with now affinity towards darker areas of knowledge, like necromancy. By training I am also industrial biotechnologist with interest in genetics and biochemistry.

Now after 20 years of practising magic I reached a conclusion that most of magic available today is seriously outdated - not ineffective, but just not updated anymore.

Sure, research in entropic energies and how the mind works - when combined with information about cell metabolism and hormone effect on emotional state of mind - has given me very good success ratio for my curses and manipulation spells.

But I find both activities to be childish - useful, yes - and very detached from what magic could achieve with access to a very precise and detailed medical research that is available to us.

It's very ironic to note, how easy it is to harm another with magic, yet how difficult it is to heal oneself with it. But of course making/breaking glass example is in effect and law of entropy does have a say, yet I find it logically flawed to assume that for such a small system like a human body it would be impossible to gather enough energy through ritual/visualisation/meditation as to decrease it's entropy and reverse ageing (up to a point) or to stimulate cell stem growth.

This should be possible.

So here is my proposal to start a discussion in which we could pool into one place those pieces of information about what techniques either mystical or magical affect the physical body directly.
Perhaps if we sift through both medical data and magical lore we will be able to come up with a technique that will give us a very useful tool for healing and inducing other desired changes in physical bodies.


Allow me to start with this well known stuff.

Relaxation Response impacts gene regulation:
http://drdavidhamilton.com/harvard-stud ... pacts-dna/

And more about this here:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/269910.php

Meditation results in thicker brain tissue:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361002/

Meditation affects cells in cancer survivors:
http://www.sciencealert.com/world-first ... vors-cells

Your thoughts people?
Surely if we can kill an entire person with a spell, we should be able to stimulate few tiny cells to multiply...

[SerAlex]

I'd, personally, love to have a gathering of knowledge about magic that can affect our cells and the such. Someone's probably already done it before, of course, with all these myths about shape-shifting; and what else would be the cause of shape-shifting other than changing your cells, DNA, etc? We could probably refer to the change of cells and other physical components of living organisms "Biomancy" or something similar.

There'd be plenty you could do with this. Improve aspects of your body, rewrite what you can do, possibly even achieve immortality. If we are gonna try looking into it, I'd think that attempting to use energies to somehow improve physical features would be the place to start, then gradually try changing stuff such as looks, race, sex, species, etc.

Also, about it being easy to kill and hard to heal. However, this really goes for anything. How many people has humanity killed and how many have we saved? Comparing the numbers, we can see that destroying is much easier than preserving.

Anyways, I wish you luck on your journey of Biomancy.

[Rin]

The "-mancy" suffix refers to divination practices, so it doesn't really apply here.

And you seem to be on the right track - research into meditation would be the best place to start, as there's been substantial interest in it's effect on the body and mind and several studies demonstrating that it has a positive effect on preventing cellular decay.

I'd also look into the chi kung, nei kung and nei dan of the Daoist sages, many of these systems were designed to, at the least, extend the lifespan and maintain health and youthful vigor into old age, and often the end goal was complete immortality (either of a physical or spiritual nature).

[SerAlex]

I'm aware of what the "-mancy" suffix means, but it's been associated with magic and most of society uses it in this way, Similar to how people will end words with "kinesis", not realizing it just means motion.

Either way, we have a decent understanding of the body and some of us here have an understanding of magical energies.


Also, that's quite interesting with those methods to extend one's life. Although, this is more about changing the body than it is with immortality. Besides, if I wanted some form of immortality, I'd try to create an artificial body that can theoretically last forever as long as it's taken care of properly, then attempt taking that body for myself if possible. I don't know anything about what we call "souls", but it should work...in theory.

But, yeah, the ability to alter your physical make-up would be quite a useful ability. From simply improving a quality of your body to changing it entirely, it can be practical or absurd depending on the user. Personally, I'd use it to change appearance to avoid people who might cause me trouble. Y'know, some jack*** who won't leave you alone or someone who you may not want to speak to...Or, for a reckless magician, someone who found out you know how to use magical energies and may have something against it.

[manonthepath]

As has been wisely mentioned, explore Qigong or Yoga.

[magari]

What about Cymatics and the sounds of ancient languages?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymatics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtiSCBXbHAg

[Shinichi]

The idea that you have to have a lot of knowledge about cells and microscopic anatomy to strengthen the body is a modern idea, and not really necessary on a practical level.

I've healed people, I've healed myself, I've strengthened my physical body (ran faster than I should be able to, jumped further, exerted strength beyond my muscular build), and lots of other neat things. In none of those exercises and experiments did I work on individual cells and such. You're thinking on too small a scale. Think about the larger scale instead, and the holistic health of the whole. The strength and health of the mind, the strength and health of the soul, the strength and health of the body, and the unity of all three.

There is a reason that highly adept martial artists say that the secret to internal power is the union of "mind, body, and spirit (soul)." You're trying to create something that already exists, but you're approaching it from the difficult angle instead of the simple angle that has been used for a very long time. If you want to innovate, then perhaps find a way to better explain what's already there (Qi Gong, Acupuncture, Ayurveda) instead of trying to create something new.

Don't mistake "modern" for "advanced." The old stuff isn't infallible, but just because something is old that doesn't make it out dated either.



~:Shin:~

[manonthepath]

What about Cymatics and the sounds of ancient languages?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymatics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtiSCBXbHAg

This is very valuable. It does however require training in correct diagnosis of current physio-energetic dynamics operant in the subject at the time in which it is being practiced. One must also understand the many variables influencing operations and which organ systems are targeted as well as the results desired. The training takes a few years, but it well worth the time and expense for those with some ability and sensitivity. I would estimate the costs at around $150,000 and perhaps 7-70 years depending on your personal issues.

[findingtruth]

Pretty late to this thread too... but (now I don't have a lot of experience with this sort of thing) what about contacting certain entities and working with them? Surely there are *some* that would be willing to work with a human enough to at least guide them towards the knowledge they seek? I would assume that one would have to be fairly advanced to even attempt something like this, but would more powerful entities not be able to help? Again, I know very little about entities so this may all just be a daydream.

[alliemarietrip]

I've crossed this bridge in my mind due to trying to understand the philosopher's stone & alchemy although I've always said I'd be immortal d: I view all religious writings to be a point of view, opinion, & or personification of existence. It seems to me everything correlates with one another in life as I know it which means there seems to be a cycling balance between all opposites. If we're trying to manifest cell regeneration, theoretically you will have to create opposing manifestations. You mentioned it's easier to create harm then health which I've noticed as well. Life typically becomes destroyed by time & motion due to outside forces. It's considered a natural process to die. But death is caused by too much negative effects to the body whether it be trauma, illness, or aging. I propose maybe possibly perfecting healing your body through magic (change through purposeful thought manifestations) is done by experience.. The more you die.. As long as you heal your self... Finding a balance between the two.. You can change & train your body to survive. I've come to this conclusion due to increased damage to my body I have done to my self, at first never knowing why... Just knowing I wanted to die & I enjoyed pain & poison. But now i see all my sufferings have taught me. I've learned to love my self, & others infinitely. I've learned about healing, health, illness & death. I've learned my limits & how to push my limits to extend those limits. But it is an everlasting effort. Once you stop caring for yourself & allow the negative effects to become too much greater than the positive where it can no longer balance out, that us the end. Just thoughts guys literally sat here thinking this through as I wrote all that blabbering lol

[maldor]

Studying the placebo effect is very difficult.

[Evander]

Amorte,

It's no longer a placebo effect:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/articl ... ne.0062817

Confirmed , meditation does affect enzyme activity:
http://www.ihavelynchsyndrome.com/the-b ... drome-com/

Scientists are getting close to proving what yogis have held to be true for centuries — yoga and meditation can ward off stress and disease.

John Denninger, a psychiatrist at Harvard Medical School, is leading a five-year study on how the ancient practices affect genes and brain activity in the chronically stressed. His latest work follows a study he and others published earlier this year showing how so-called mind-body techniques can switch on and off some genes linked to stress and immune function.

While hundreds of studies have been conducted on the mental health benefits of yoga and meditation, they have tended to rely on blunt tools like participant questionnaires, as well as heart rate and blood pressure monitoring. Only recently have neuro-imaging and genomics technology used in Denninger’s latest studies allowed scientists to measure physiological changes in greater detail.

“There is a true biological effect,” said Denninger, director of research at the Benson-Henry Institute for Mind Body Medicine at Massachusetts General Hospital, one of Harvard Medical School’s teaching hospitals. “The kinds of things that happen when you meditate do have effects throughout the body, not just in the brain.”

[Evander]

Amorte,

Let me comment on the answers in this topic.

I'd, personally, love to have a gathering of knowledge about magic that can affect our cells and the such. Someone's probably already done it before, of course, with all these myths about shape-shifting; and what else would be the cause of shape-shifting other than changing your cells, DNA, etc? We could probably refer to the change of cells and other physical components of living organisms "Biomancy" or something similar.

I believe that it is named biokinesis.
I watched some videos but they appear no different than typical psionical visualisation stuff.
Doesn't mean that they do not work, it's just very few people reprorted success with them.

There'd be plenty you could do with this. Improve aspects of your body, rewrite what you can do, possibly even achieve immortality. If we are gonna try looking into it, I'd think that attempting to use energies to somehow improve physical features would be the place to start, then gradually try changing stuff such as looks, race, sex, species, etc.

All things would be possible in the end. But in order to walk this path, we need to start somewhere, of course.

Also, about it being easy to kill and hard to heal. However, this really goes for anything. How many people has humanity killed and how many have we saved? Comparing the numbers, we can see that destroying is much easier than preserving.

Which a very interesting aspect of our universe by the way.

Can we "destroy" aging mechanisms or leave them off in "do not age" state?

Here is a discovery of epigenetic switches controlling how fast your body is aging.
In itself it is an extremely interesting find, what sort of magic can we use to tackle epigenetic switches directly?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 191709.htm

The "-mancy" suffix refers to divination practices, so it doesn't really apply here.

And you seem to be on the right track - research into meditation would be the best place to start, as there's been substantial interest in it's effect on the body and mind and several studies demonstrating that it has a positive effect on preventing cellular decay.

I'd also look into the chi kung, nei kung and nei dan of the Daoist sages, many of these systems were designed to, at the least, extend the lifespan and maintain health and youthful vigor into old age, and often the end goal was complete immortality (either of a physical or spiritual nature).

Let us leave semantics for now. Traditional use of this word is one thing, every day reality is another.

Mediation has a very long history and there are mantras that were found to affect cellular processes, like 'Satanama' from my post above.

Researching into the mechanism of mind affecting enzymatic workings of the cells directly can result in a technique, based on servitors for example, that will enhance this process even further. All that is needed is some more theoretical research and finally testing of practical solutions.

Pay off may be spectacular.

Either way, we have a decent understanding of the body and some of us here have an understanding of magical energies.

Let us use it then. It is a waste for such a knowledge and experience to sit idly and do nothing.

Also, that's quite interesting with those methods to extend one's life. Although, this is more about changing the body than it is with immortality. Besides, if I wanted some form of immortality, I'd try to create an artificial body that can theoretically last forever as long as it's taken care of properly, then attempt taking that body for myself if possible. I don't know anything about what we call "souls", but it should work...in theory.

I am researching multiple options.
One thing we should keep in our minds is that we are talking about using magic to enhance processes of self regeneration that are already present.
We are looking to induce longevity lasting long beyond what is typical for humans, at least for a first stage of the research.
This would also open a possibility for a bio-manipulation of our cells and possibly to what you mention below.

However this is different from
- eternal youth, as our cells will continue to grow and die anyway. perhaps such result can be achieved with careful balancing of the process in our bodies.
Remember, there are already cells in human body that do not age. Now if we could teach the other ones the same trick.
- immortality. As in resistance to death and disease. This may prove very difficult without creating a 'vessel' like you mentioned above. Perhaps we should experiment in energetic bodies of man and teach them to interfere with physical world directly without a need for physical flesh. Still it will require time to wrap our heads around it, so longevity is desired.

But, yeah, the ability to alter your physical make-up would be quite a useful ability. From simply improving a quality of your body to changing it entirely, it can be practical or absurd depending on the user. Personally, I'd use it to change appearance to avoid people who might cause me trouble. Y'know, some jack*** who won't leave you alone or someone who you may not want to speak to...Or, for a reckless magician, someone who found out you know how to use magical energies and may have something against it.

For the latter I would rather help him into the next life. People who want to cause you trouble just because of ideology are not worth the privilege of breathing the same air anyway.

What about Cymatics and the sounds of ancient languages?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymatics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtiSCBXbHAg

Pretty hardcore. But I think it might have practical applications. Will look into it at some later stage.

The idea that you have to have a lot of knowledge about cells and microscopic anatomy to strengthen the body is a modern idea, and not really necessary on a practical level.

I was thinking about expanding this knowledge with the means of magic anyway.

I've healed people, I've healed myself, I've strengthened my physical body (ran faster than I should be able to, jumped further, exerted strength beyond my muscular build), and lots of other neat things. In none of those exercises and experiments did I work on individual cells and such. You're thinking on too small a scale. Think about the larger scale instead, and the holistic health of the whole. The strength and health of the mind, the strength and health of the soul, the strength and health of the body, and the unity of all three.

Healing is simple. It is just a reverse of destroying, only takes more time and energy and a way to put things back into working order.
What we are discussing is inducing a change that will alter slightly biology of human cells. Switch off ageing genes. Increase telomerase production and regeneration capacity.

Once we realize what sort of change is required (this is a first difficulty, what needs to be done) and how to induce it on the small scale (a second obstacle, how exactly do you do this) going into holistic full body alteration will not be a problem.

There is a reason that highly adept martial artists say that the secret to internal power is the union of "mind, body, and spirit (soul)." You're trying to create something that already exists, but you're approaching it from the difficult angle instead of the simple angle that has been used for a very long time. If you want to innovate, then perhaps find a way to better explain what's already there (Qi Gong, Acupuncture, Ayurveda) instead of trying to create something new.

I haven't said that. What I said is that these practices are not magic really. They are mystical.
And with things mystical the problem is always the same - you need to be in the right mental state to have any repeatable results.
My point is to approach it from the other end - see the actual process going on inside the body and tackle it directly with a means of magic that will produce lasting effect, independent of a mage current emotional/psychophysical state.

Don't mistake "modern" for "advanced." The old stuff isn't infallible, but just because something is old that doesn't make it out dated either.

To be honest, I am not terribly enthusiastic about either.
Just because something is new, doesn't mean it is better. But just because something is old, doesn't mean that either.
Learn, apply, verify. Produces results - is good. Can be repeated by the others - is even better.

Pretty late to this thread too... but (now I don't have a lot of experience with this sort of thing) what about contacting certain entities and working with them? Surely there are *some* that would be willing to work with a human enough to at least guide them towards the knowledge they seek? I would assume that one would have to be fairly advanced to even attempt something like this, but would more powerful entities not be able to help? Again, I know very little about entities so this may all just be a daydream.

It might not be.
It is logical to assume that amongst many intelligencies out there some do already posses this knowledge. Finding them and obtaining the knowledge from them is a viable option.
The problem for me is that I do not trust external beings very much and I neglected practical aspects of summoning these.
For now I will stick with what I know. But if someone was to actually search for such a being and shared information obtained for a verification, that would be indeed a good thing.

I've crossed this bridge in my mind due to trying to understand the philosopher's stone & alchemy although I've always said I'd be immortal d: I view all religious writings to be a point of view, opinion, & or personification of existence. It seems to me everything correlates with one another in life as I know it which means there seems to be a cycling balance between all opposites. If we're trying to manifest cell regeneration, theoretically you will have to create opposing manifestations.

Each force is dual in nature. But it doesn't work that way.
Let me explain this to you.

Imagine you have a table with multiple items on it, you take a bucket of water and flush them out. Your idea was to remove all unwanted artifacts from this area, but in the process you also flushed everything else.
That is because when you invoke a force that can move objects or events your way, you work with entire nature of this force - once an objects comes to you from a distance, you have to bind the force to stop and let you have this object as long as you want to. Otherwise the force will simply keep moving that object past you and eventually - out of your reach.

Therefore it is not really needed to create a destructive effect to balance the oppositions out - it is needed to bind the force in such a manner that only positive effect is created.

You mentioned it's easier to create harm then health which I've noticed as well. Life typically becomes destroyed by time & motion due to outside forces. It's considered a natural process to die. But death is caused by too much negative effects to the body whether it be trauma, illness, or aging. I propose maybe possibly perfecting healing your body through magic (change through purposeful thought manifestations) is done by experience.. The more you die.. As long as you heal your self... Finding a balance between the two.. You can change & train your body to survive. I've come to this conclusion due to increased damage to my body I have done to my self, at first never knowing why... Just knowing I wanted to die & I enjoyed pain & poison. But now i see all my sufferings have taught me. I've learned to love my self, & others infinitely. I've learned about healing, health, illness & death. I've learned my limits & how to push my limits to extend those limits. But it is an everlasting effort. Once you stop caring for yourself & allow the negative effects to become too much greater than the positive where it can no longer balance out, that us the end. Just thoughts guys literally sat here thinking this through as I wrote all that blabbering lol

This is philosophical part of it. I have little need to actually worry about this, as I have started my regular meditation when I was 8 years old.
I grow up with this and now I view world very different from people around me.
I never get bored. If there is nothing to do physically around me, all I need to do is to close my eyes and new worlds are born before my spiritual eyes.

I do not seek immortality out of fear of Death. I seek immortality out of a love of life.

[Caerdon]

I actually have some thoughts on this. This is an abridged version as I am not in a proper mind to go through it in the properly needed detail, but i should be able to give the gist of it so it'd be understandable.
Anyways, by concentrating on the energies emitted by people's bodies (which I believe is byproduct of the cells of the body using their fuel and dividing, using up the coating on the DNA ends called telomeres) I think that, if reversed engineered, you can apply the energies back into the body on a cellular level to give it an alternate source... or rather an extended source of the natural energy reserves it already has. Though to get it to work, I think it'd have to be applied directly to the Telomeres themselves in high exact concentrations, starting from the center core structures of the body (nerves, marrow, etc) and spreading it outwards from there.
You'd need repeated exposures, though with enough time between to allow for some natural cellular decay to prevent some of the adverse side effects, such as the neuron instability buildup problem in the brain that would be present in constant exposure...

Well that's some of my thoughts on this, not as detailed as I would like but i think you can see the pathway of my thinking on this.

[ThyNegative]

i know how you feel. all useless repeated knowledge on the internet, the only differences could be found are on fraud's summoning techniques.
2 years ago when i reached this conclusion and started experimenting and analyzing invented meditations and their effects.
this is one of my posts http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 13&t=38422 .
test it and see how different it is. [grin]
anyway if you were looking for discussion on how energy systems i'm in. [yay]