Life After Death?

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MrDylan1981
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Life After Death?

Post by MrDylan1981 »

What happens after someone dies, I'm just curious that's all, Its just one of those philosophical questions of mine.

I Personally believe that you stay on the astral plane until God(or whatever it may be i personally believe in the jeudo chirstain / Jewish God) decides its time for you to reincarnate, what is the truth about life after death?
Do we all go to hell?
Do we actually reincarnate?
Does hell exist, or is it just the lowest form of the astral plane?
What type of people go to hell? Does it have to be someone who does really bad things IE Murder?
Do we reunite with the creator whoever that may be?
Why is the multiple views on this, and which one is the truth?
I'm 17 so I'm properly not going to die any time soon, I'm just scared about death, in general and I've always wondered what happens to people who die, its just one of those things that intelligence people think about, I know this may be a sensitive topic, and I'm not sure if this is allowed to be discussed, But i think it is a interesting question to ask.

- Dylan.

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by Ramscha »

No, thinking about death all the time and dedicating ones life all for a nebolous afterlife, that is what (in my opinion!) dumb people do. Instead of enjoying the life they currently have and make the best of it (except you suffer from a disease which probably kills you soon, but euthanasia is not what I wanted to talk about...).

Being scared of something inevidible, the biological death is also dumb. By not discussing it and turning it into a taboo it get s even worse. Talk about it, find out why it scares you and then go on. Spend thought on something is one thing but loosing yourself in it is completly different. Don't stick with it until death gets you.... except you have nothing else to do. Being afraid is fine, it is something else then being scared. You can go on with the first one, but the second one causes a paralysis.

It is nice to have something looking forward even when the grim reaper gets you, I personally envy people who have something like that they can look forward without getting dragged down here and now (that is what I mentioned above). I personally cannot tell you what happenes afterwards. I was close to the door but haven't passed through it yet, so you will have to get the answer from elsewhere.

Just this one: You mentioned it is a philosophical question. Thats partly true. It is, in my humble opinion, a pseudo-philosophical question because it ultimatly brings you back to the beginning, it turns in circles except you state "I belive in blabla and that's it!".

Don't know what happens after my brain shuts down, my flesh gets ripped from my bowns and my organs turn to dust, but I look forward to it as the last surprise I will get on this planet. Let's enjoy the time between this point of time and now.

Just my 2 cents on the topic

Sorry for all the ones whose world view I trampled witht hose words, I apologize if that is the case.

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by Desecrated »

The only thing we can be certain about is that it is absolutely not like being alive.
And being alive is not like being dead, so concentrate on that for now.

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by MrDylan1981 »

Ramscha wrote:No, thinking about death all the time and dedicating ones life all for a nebolous afterlife, that is what (in my opinion!) dumb people do. Instead of enjoying the life they currently have and make the best of it (except you suffer from a disease which probably kills you soon, but euthanasia is not what I wanted to talk about...).

Being scared of something inevidible, the biological death is also dumb. By not discussing it and turning it into a taboo it get s even worse. Talk about it, find out why it scares you and then go on. Spend thought on something is one thing but loosing yourself in it is completly different. Don't stick with it until death gets you.... except you have nothing else to do. Being afraid is fine, it is something else then being scared. You can go on with the first one, but the second one causes a paralysis.

It is nice to have something looking forward even when the grim reaper gets you, I personally envy people who have something like that they can look forward without getting dragged down here and now (that is what I mentioned above). I personally cannot tell you what happenes afterwards. I was close to the door but haven't passed through it yet, so you will have to get the answer from elsewhere.

Just this one: You mentioned it is a philosophical question. Thats partly true. It is, in my humble opinion, a pseudo-philosophical question because it ultimatly brings you back to the beginning, it turns in circles except you state "I belive in blabla and that's it!".

Don't know what happens after my brain shuts down, my flesh gets ripped from my bowns and my organs turn to dust, but I look forward to it as the last surprise I will get on this planet. Let's enjoy the time between this point of time and now.

Just my 2 cents on the topic

Sorry for all the ones whose world view I trampled witht hose words, I apologize if that is the case.

Ramscha

Just to put it out there, I don't think about life after death daily or anything, its just one of those questions that i must know because I'm a perfectionist In some aspects, It comes across my mind occasionally, It drives me crazy knowing there are things that we don't know for sure. Although i disagree with you saying that being scared of the inevitable is dumb, What scares me is not knowing what happens after death, Not knowing certain things scares me, by scared i don't mean screaming because you saw a spider or anything like that, just the fact that i don't know certain things and that things are unknowable, its just when i try and sleep at night, my brain comes up with the most random thoughts, and i usually end up not sleeping because i must know the answer.

By scared i properly mean afraid, i sometimes use words in a different context .

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by Ramscha »

It is fine if you disagree with me [happy2]
But you got the point about the fear I meant above, if you use now afraid or scared as the term of choice is not really important, it is about the point of paralysis. The difference between fear and panic.

However, if it causes you trouble you should seek professionel help. With professionel help I don't mean an Internet forum.
Don't take me wrong, I don't mean to offend you. However, if you say it causes you trouble and you cannot sleep while thinking about it because there are simply questions we have not yet answered in an ultimate way (like what is the meaning of life and stuff...) you probably won't sleep very much. I don't know to which extend this behaviour manifests itself, but just based on what you wrote so far my message is simple: If it causes you trouble, be honest enough with yourself and seek help.

Ramscha
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Re: Life After Death?

Post by SerAlex »

Personally, I like to believe that once we're dead we'll get reincarnated. While I mostly believe this because deep down I really dislike the idea of not being able to lead lives throughout history as multiple people and instead being trapped in some paradise or spiritual prison....I also think it's very likely since otherwise, what would happen to our souls and where do the other ones come from? As far as I know, no form of matter or energy can be destroyed or created. So, unless our "souls" are something else we haven't defined yet....
Knowledge is power, but power corrupts. The combination of will, wisdom, and moral is the protective trinity against corruption.

I won't believe what you say until I get proof of it, but I shall consider it before said proof is seen.

My ultimate dream is to affect the world around me without getting too much attention while also watching the progress of humanity and enjoying life to its fullest for an eternity.

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by the_spiral »

I'm open to different possibilities (since no one knows for sure), but I tend to take an "as above, so below" approach to life after death. Since "dead" matter returns to the earth to be recycled in the service of new life, it makes sense that energy, souls etc would also be recycled. I've also met astral beings without physical bodies from time to time, which makes me think one doesn't necessarily need a body to be alive. So I basically believe in reincarnation, although maybe not in a literalistic sense (i.e. "Be good or you'll come back as a dung beetle!")
"Follow the path of the radiant life force as she flashes upward like lightning through your body." - Vijanabhairava Tantra

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by Rin »

I accept reincarnation as the most likely explanation, based on my current worldview (which is informed by my experiences and the teachings of those I consider reliable sources) but I remain open to other possibilities should the evidence change. I don't focus on it too much - once you accept that there's at least some kind of life after death (which I'm certain of), then it's exact nature isn't very important in determining how you live your life, imo.
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"

- DDJ, Verse 27

"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by manonthepath »

17 year olds die every day. Don't be sure your number won't be up tomorrow kid! Nobody knows what happens or even if the same shit happens to everyone. The ego and identity are physical manifestations and will die with the body. In that sense nothjing will be left of "You." It may be possible that there is a residual energetic dynamic that may still be operant, but this may only be the case for those of us, who work on developing it through meditation and the practice of love in our daily lives. The undeveloped materialists ans imbeciles with little to no energetic development stand very little chance of anything in life or after life. Again, who knows? Nobody, but everybody thinks they know for sure. Focus on the moment and try to get some joy before the shit hits the fan.

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by Horny Goat »

Although no one can know for sure, it seems to be that after death you experience whatever yo expect to. Whatever you deeply believe happens after death is exactly what you get.

It's believed, by Spiritualists, that the afterlife is an ideoplastic plane, a realm of existence moulded by thought. Whatever you think, you get. That includes your whole environment. Whatever you believe the afterlife is like is exactly what you'll get.

So, if you believe in the Christian heaven, that's where you find yourself. Unless you think you've been bad. Then you go to ...?

If you believe in reincarnation, you get reincarnation.

There are accounts of psychics visiting Christian graveyards and seeing lots of spirits of the dead just lying in their graves. These people's belief was that after death you have to wait for the day of resurrection when God will bring all the dead back to life. So, expecting this they just lie there inactive and awaiting this resurrection.

For materialists and atheists; there are accounts of deeply hypnotised persons being persuaded that they are dead. When asked what they see they answer ' nothing, I am dead.' When asked what they hear, 'nothing, I am dead.' What they sense, what they feel, what they think? Their answer is 'nothing, I am dead.' Expect nothing death and you will get nothing, yet you still exist.

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by SerAlex »

@Horny Goat (Oh, god, that name, though...)

So, theoretically, if I believed that when I died I got reborn with all my prior knowledge, experience, mental qualities, and other non-physical qualities still with me, but in a different body.....That would be what I get?

Or, if I believed that those who have been great and wise enough in their lives became Gods while devious ones become demons, while those who are both would be demon Gods, I would get one of those?

Or, that when I die, I'd actually not die, but instead my corpse would come back to life and eat everyone?

OK, that last one obviously is impossible no matter what you believe, but still. Are you sure if you're correct on this belief thing?
Knowledge is power, but power corrupts. The combination of will, wisdom, and moral is the protective trinity against corruption.

I won't believe what you say until I get proof of it, but I shall consider it before said proof is seen.

My ultimate dream is to affect the world around me without getting too much attention while also watching the progress of humanity and enjoying life to its fullest for an eternity.

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by manonthepath »

Horny Goat wrote:Although no one can know for sure, it seems to be that after death you experience whatever yo expect to. Whatever you deeply believe happens after death is exactly what you get.

It's believed, by Spiritualists, that the afterlife is an ideoplastic plane, a realm of existence moulded by thought. Whatever you think, you get. That includes your whole environment. Whatever you believe the afterlife is like is exactly what you'll get.

So, if you believe in the Christian heaven, that's where you find yourself. Unless you think you've been bad. Then you go to ...?

If you believe in reincarnation, you get reincarnation.

There are accounts of psychics visiting Christian graveyards and seeing lots of spirits of the dead just lying in their graves. These people's belief was that after death you have to wait for the day of resurrection when God will bring all the dead back to life. So, expecting this they just lie there inactive and awaiting this resurrection.

For materialists and atheists; there are accounts of deeply hypnotised persons being persuaded that they are dead. When asked what they see they answer ' nothing, I am dead.' When asked what they hear, 'nothing, I am dead.' What they sense, what they feel, what they think? Their answer is 'nothing, I am dead.' Expect nothing death and you will get nothing, yet you still exist.
Incredibly cute hypothesis.

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by manofsands »

I don't know
nobody knows
Logic dictates we end, we 'sleep' such a deep sleep, we don't exist.... is that bad?

Spiritual studies and intuition (and maybe rationalization) says we reincarnate. My only 'logic' being it makes life fair.

Religion says there is a destination. ... one time thru, one destination, depending on culture and upbringing...? doesn't make much sense to me unless it is only a temporary stop.

Let's make t simple. You exist after death or you don't. Does it matter how you act now if you do or don't? I would think a 'hopeful' paradigm would be 'worth living' + it would ensure a non-painful afterlife.

I personally don't care at the moment. If there is no afterlife,.. I won't know. If there is, I feel secure that we will only get what we need. And I don't believe in eternal damnation. Temporary damnation,... maybe. It may be what is going on now...
YOU ARE
where your
ATTENTION IS

there is no need to push the river... it will flow on its own

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by manonthepath »

"END?" You mean ego? Logic dictates a change of state.

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by Horny Goat »

SerAlex, (great name! Should it be Sir?) I quote you:

So, theoretically, if I believed that when I died I got reborn with all my prior knowledge, experience, mental qualities, and other non-physical qualities still with me, but in a different body.....That would be what I get?

Or, if I believed that those who have been great and wise enough in their lives became Gods while devious ones become demons, while those who are both would be demon Gods, I would get one of those?

If you wanted the first one you'd have to work hard at it whilst still alive to set such things up. It's something you'd have to actively set up.

With regards to the second one, I think you're probably being snarky here. Mine was a very rushed post but fair enough. No I don't believe you can make yourself into a God just by believing in it. Godlike powers must already lie latent in you but you're going to have to work hard to develop them. Then, they will come to fruition whilst you're still alive rather than after your death. With regards to becoming a demon; those who make pacts with such spirits can find themselves in their service after death and do indeed become something deeply unpleasant.

With regards to becoming a zombie that goes around eating everyone. I think the nearest thing to that is to reincarnate as one of those great big fat Americans who eat enough each year for several people.

There are numerous cases of people being dead but hen returning to life. Again, if that's something you want you must actively work for it whilst still alive rather than expecting it passively. But once you've got back into your body...? Refusal to leave the body after death; attemting to restore it to life but not quite able to do so = vampirism.

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by MrDylan1981 »

Horny Goat wrote:Although no one can know for sure, it seems to be that after death you experience whatever yo expect to. Whatever you deeply believe happens after death is exactly what you get.

It's believed, by Spiritualists, that the afterlife is an ideoplastic plane, a realm of existence moulded by thought. Whatever you think, you get. That includes your whole environment. Whatever you believe the afterlife is like is exactly what you'll get.

So, if you believe in the Christian heaven, that's where you find yourself. Unless you think you've been bad. Then you go to ...?

If you believe in reincarnation, you get reincarnation.

There are accounts of psychics visiting Christian graveyards and seeing lots of spirits of the dead just lying in their graves. These people's belief was that after death you have to wait for the day of resurrection when God will bring all the dead back to life. So, expecting this they just lie there inactive and awaiting this resurrection.

For materialists and atheists; there are accounts of deeply hypnotised persons being persuaded that they are dead. When asked what they see they answer ' nothing, I am dead.' When asked what they hear, 'nothing, I am dead.' What they sense, what they feel, what they think? Their answer is 'nothing, I am dead.' Expect nothing death and you will get nothing, yet you still exist.
Interesting, You're talking about the levels of the astral plane I'm guessing? So whatever resides in your mind and what you believe is what you hypothetically get, excluding a few extreme things, Ie being god and such. Kinda reminds me of something i read in one of my books(kabablah) ie you can create energy constructs(eg egregores) that reside in the astral plane for a specific task, I've astral projected before mostly in my sleep and have seen deceased pets of mine, that recently passed so it seems realistic enough for me, i haven't got an imagination that good to image like that, which makes me think that the human body is a shell of some sort, i've even tripped over things and jumped into my body(if thats the correct term for that).

Also, Thanks everyone for your reply's :) Just one of those things i have to get of my mind ahah :)
Also, I respect everyone's opinion on the subject, and I'm open minded and don't really get offended by anything ahah :)
I'm still laughing at your user name Horny Goat haha, sorry, that's a really weird username but who am i to judge, everyone is weird in there own way.

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by Horny Goat »

I quote you: I'm still laughing at your user name Horny Goat haha, sorry, that's a really weird username but who am i to judge, everyone is weird in there own way.

You're obviously a city lad rather than a country lad otherwise you'd not think there was anything funny or weird about this name. If you lived in the country you'd know that goats are often horny, and, well, it's just nice that they are, that's all. Very friendly creatures. Very affectionate. Some might say passionate even. Townies, they just don't understand the country ways. Baaahh.

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by Ramscha »

Horny Goat wrote:SerAlex, (great name! Should it be Sir?) I quote you:

So, theoretically, if I believed that when I died I got reborn with all my prior knowledge, experience, mental qualities, and other non-physical qualities still with me, but in a different body.....That would be what I get?

Or, if I believed that those who have been great and wise enough in their lives became Gods while devious ones become demons, while those who are both would be demon Gods, I would get one of those?

If you wanted the first one you'd have to work hard at it whilst still alive to set such things up. It's something you'd have to actively set up.

With regards to the second one, I think you're probably being snarky here. Mine was a very rushed post but fair enough. No I don't believe you can make yourself into a God just by believing in it. Godlike powers must already lie latent in you but you're going to have to work hard to develop them. Then, they will come to fruition whilst you're still alive rather than after your death. With regards to becoming a demon; those who make pacts with such spirits can find themselves in their service after death and do indeed become something deeply unpleasant.

With regards to becoming a zombie that goes around eating everyone. I think the nearest thing to that is to reincarnate as one of those great big fat Americans who eat enough each year for several people.

There are numerous cases of people being dead but hen returning to life. Again, if that's something you want you must actively work for it whilst still alive rather than expecting it passively. But once you've got back into your body...? Refusal to leave the body after death; attemting to restore it to life but not quite able to do so = vampirism.
Mind me asking? Assuming your postolated hypothesis bears some truth, where does this latent god power you mentioned come from in your opinion?

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by SerAlex »

@Horny Goat

Ser is an alternate spelling of sir, so I don't care which you use. I just like how ser looks.

As for all of what you said in response. They were just "examples" to use your theory with, the last of which was intentionally stupid and far-fetched. After all, many people believe zombies will one day roam the Earth (although, these people are usually quite disconnected from reality) and none of them are walking alive. As for the other two, I've heard of stuff like that, but I've not seen or heard of actual incidents where people accomplished these. Once again, though, they were just examples, scenarios, possible events.
Knowledge is power, but power corrupts. The combination of will, wisdom, and moral is the protective trinity against corruption.

I won't believe what you say until I get proof of it, but I shall consider it before said proof is seen.

My ultimate dream is to affect the world around me without getting too much attention while also watching the progress of humanity and enjoying life to its fullest for an eternity.

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by Horny Goat »

These godlike powers Ramscha, it's just a figure of speech. The term god or godlike is relative when applied to man. People do have abilities lying latent within them that are far beyond those made use of in everyday life. I'm not trying to suggest we can go around creating whole universes or such like but we surely have abilities beyond the normal.

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by Shinichi »

Every magus, witch and wizard worth their salt knows what happens after death, because leaving the body and Journeying to The Underworld is a simple matter for an initiate. If you don't know what awaits you in the Otherworld then just study, practice, and go see for yourself. Theorizing and debate will get you nowhere, and fear will only make your life unpleasant.



~:Shin:~

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by Ramscha »

Shinichi wrote:Every magus, witch and wizard worth their salt knows what happens after death, because leaving the body and Journeying to The Underworld is a simple matter for an initiate. If you don't know what awaits you in the Otherworld then just study, practice, and go see for yourself. Theorizing and debate will get you nowhere, and fear will only make your life unpleasant.



~:Shin:~
But you probably know as well as anybody else worth his or her salt that knowing that you end up somewhere else is the one thing but knowing exactly where in the otherworld which has countless faces to see is on a whole different scale.

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by Shinichi »

Sure, you can call it a different scale. But which corner of the afterlife someone goes to can be clairvoyantly Seen or Divined as well as any other future event. I don't see why that would be such an issue.

How they end up there is probably a more interesting question, and that usually has a lot to do with culture and cosmology. I don't think it's quite as idealistic as a straight up "you go where you expect to go," though.



~:Shin:~

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by Atzmuth »

For example I do believe we shouldnt be judged and there shouldnt be a punishment for souls even if they are criminals, murderers or perverts. Becouse their evil characters and villianous acts are the result of their bad envoriment or bad parenting or bad education etc. Whenever I see bad people or bad things happen I think first about the underlying reasons before accusing the bad guy. If The Creator ( I am ok with the concept of a Creator but I deny an omniscience all good omnipotent boss) gave us the freewill the use of it is up to us so we can not be judged even if "God" wanted a perfect world with full of good things he could have acknowledged the bad events (fall of adam etc) and could fix the problem before the events took place and as a result we are not responsible for our choices also I think God didnt want to create a perfect universe thats why I dont believe in the concept of a "god" but I rather find the concept of a creator more reasonable. Btw It is good to see young people like me joining to this forum ( I am also 17).
There is no Lucifer to folow, no God to obey
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.

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Re: Life After Death?

Post by Ramscha »

To think that you are not responcible for your actions is a pretty convenient way to see things, isn't it. Blaming some damn creator for evereything makes things a lot easier, especially for his picture of bad and good that you seemingly adopted.
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