What is the lifeforce?

[Horny Goat]

What to you is the lifeforce? Is it the same thing as mana? How, if at all, does it differ from mana or any other magickal energy?

I ask from the following case: it comes from the book Immortality by Draja Mickaharic. He is an elderly author and longtime professional spell caster based in New York. During the course of his career he has met many remarkable people and come across many interesting stories.

He tells of a man who came to him for help saying he believed his wife had a lover and that the two of them were attempting to curse him to death. He says he is rarely ill and never more than than for a couple of days and yet, he has now been ill for three weeks.

Draja performed a divination for him and confirmed his suspicions were true. His wife was having an affair and they were indeed attempting a death curse.

Draja was about to offer protection when the man said there was no need. He took out a number of photos of various men, sorted through them until he identified the wife's lover, then concentrated hard on it for fifteen minutes. When he'd finished he said he had drained the man's life force.

The next day Draja found a newspaper pushed through his letterbox. Circled in red was an account of a man who had died of a heart attack at work. The wife's lover.

This death is somewhat similar to the Kahuna death prayer which involves a draining off of the victim's life force but over three days.

So then, what is the lifeforce? How does it differ from mana energy? How does it differ from the earth, air, fire, water, and akasha energies, also the electric fluid and magnetic force, as used in Bardon?

Thank you.

[Shinichi]

Bardon calls it the Vital Force. Mana is just another word for it, in another language. It's also called Ond (Old Norse), Prana (Sanskrit), Qi (Chinese), and Ki (Japanese), and virtually every other developed tradition of magic or system of metaphysics has some name for it. I think the Hebrew name is Rauch, but my Hebrew is rusty.

It shouldn't take much homework to learn more about it. All living things have this Life Force -- rocks, plants, animals, and of course humans. Inanimate objects (like your cell phone, a pair of scissors, or McDonald's French Fry's) do not naturally possess it, but can be charged with it (think Enchantment, Amulets, Talismans). A particular Space can also be charged with it, as in the case of most haunting's as well as Warding or Barrier magic. The traditional systems of Chinese Medicine like Acupuncture deal with how this energy circulates inside the body, and things like Ley Lines are the circulation of this energy through the Earth. It's a pretty important force, as much for how easy it is to learn and work with as for its universal presence. You don't have to drain your Internal supply during metaphysical work, and as per methods like Reiki you don't have to use your Internal Energy at all. Bardon gave simple instructions on using Universal energy instead of Internal, particularly in healing work so that you don't transfer any of your bad mojo onto the patient.

If you don't know where to start with learning about it, I recommend Qi Gong or Yoga. The Science of Breath by Yogi Ramacharaka is a particularly good place to start for Westerners, and of course Bardon's instructions are very simple and extremely effective. If you feel like looking into Qi Gong, I recommend you start with Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming. He explains the traditional Qi Gong teachings in very simple and easy to understand terms. I've found his work particularly beneficial for my internal martial arts.



~:Shin:~

[manonthepath]

Consider this book:


http://ymaa.com/publishing/books/qigong ... ese_qigong

[grimmos]

I can tell you how its the same im unusual and I have schizophrenia most all life forces attach to me such as boundries but in hope of hitchicking but not always pleasant I find these saws actually communicate but are they really google oh you wouldn't lie would you

[420]

For a scientific explaination of what the life force is and how it functions, read Dr. Wilhelm Reich's books. He calls it orgone, but it is the life force.

[Desecrated]

I really enjoyed this book about qigong. It's probably not the best one out there, but his writing is very smooth and he explains it really really well.

http://www.amazon.com/Qigong-Health-Vit ... 0312141289

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

I'm still trying to figure out whose model is right - whether VLF is the interface between soul (consciousness) and spirit (matter), whether it's a different structure where rather than interface it's consciousness and matter interacting with something supernal to it (that's when people arrange the heirarchy spirit > soul > matter) and it seems like it's more than just language differing.

I tend to think the only way to really understand it is seeing it motion and discover it ones self. I found out that on the scale of quick and dirty methods to really wake it up, hallucinogens being at the top, the close second - and what's actually more sure to give you more than just visuals but actual experience of something else - is sexual tantra. My only concern with sexual tantra though, it might not be a permanent concern but what I'm sizing up is at least a significant momentary barrier or partition of logic, is the challenge of trying to integrate sexuality and integrity rather than trying to hide or mask one with the other. I suppose this could be seen a bit like the alchemical merger of seemingly very different things or things that have a certain high content of opposites (at least as we've been trained in the west). That'll be a fascinating endeavor and I look forward to seeing how it pans out.

I'm figuring also, as you get on with magical workings - same for me as well - that the varieties of experience in which we get in touch with the VLF, Kundalini (if it really is Mercury and not Sulfur), etc. will flesh themselves out and that experience will give a far more stable base to build real comprehension from rather than any kind of attempt to philosophically pit authors and ideas off against each other.

[Horny Goat]

Thank you all for your replies. I'm not sure they answer my question though. If mana is the lifeforce then can anyone say what Bardon's electric fluid and magnetic force are with regards to the lifeforce? What are the magickal energies of earth, air, fire and water with respect to the lifeforce?

In the story I originally told, the man drained the lifeforce off in just fifteen minutes using a photograph. The Kahuna death prayer used spirits to kill in three days by draining off the lifeforce. Is it really just the mana?

Cybernetic Jazz, your answer was such that I wondered if you had meant to post it in reply to another thread and had put it here accidentally. I am sorry but I couldn't understand it. What is VLF? Vital life force? Thank you.

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

What is VLF? Vital life force?

Yeah, that.

Also I can see my post got a little obscure - pretty much it's just my current status in where things are at on my own research of lifeforce. To sum it up a little neater I would have to assume that its either the same thing as kundalini or intertwined with it close enough that I can't really tell the difference yet. I'm wanting to figure out how to put it to positive use, get lasting results, and take enough to experiment with and see for myself what works and what doesn't.

[Shinichi]

Thank you all for your replies. I'm not sure they answer my question though. If mana is the lifeforce then can anyone say what Bardon's electric fluid and magnetic force are with regards to the lifeforce? What are the magickal energies of earth, air, fire and water with respect to the lifeforce?

Try meditating on some of the old creation myths, the Norse or Daoist stories in particular, to help you understand the different forces and how they play for each other. I mention the Norse and Daoist stories as being of particular interest because both of those focus strongly on the Polar Forces -- Ice and Fire, Yin and Yang, Magnetic and Electric. The Daoist myths explain how the interplay of these two Forces created everything else.

In the beginning there was One energy, one Cosmic Force through which everything was bound. This doesn't mean Monad God, but just, one base substance. Then this One Force became polarized, and thus we have the Electric (Yang, or Old Norse FIre -- Muspelheim) and Magnetic (Yin, or Old Norse Ice -- Niflheim) Forces. Then in the Four Element based cosmologies, these Forces radiated and expanded further, creating Fire (which is born from the Electric Fluid) and Water (which is born from the Magnetic Fluid). Fire and Water, mixing together, created Air, and as all three forces mingled and came into balance, Earth too form from their union.

So. To put it simply, Life Force is a "blank slate" kind of energy, the primal raw energy or Light of everything Living -- it is simply the energy of Life. It can be imprinted with Qualities, but it has little concern for different aspects of the universe, except on a certain scale -- it's there for everything equally, including the Fluids and Elements, which can be influenced with it. The Fluids and Elements, conversely, are more...specific, individual aspects of the universe, and likewise be influenced and manipulated without using Life Force as a medium and such. They're all just different parts of the puzzle.

The "scale" I mentioned above refers to a certain...dissonance and consonance thing. For those of us who are clearly sensitive to and Aware of the Life Force in outselves and everything around us, for example, there's a difference between a fresh vibrant salad and an apple that's been left on the counter to rot. The fresh vegetables are still "alive," and they possess a certain amount of Life Force still. A rotten apple still possesses a certain Energy, but it's no longer a "Life" Force. It's more of a...miasma. There were some Necromancers a while back who called it Death Essence, but it's basically just Life Force expressed in a different way. Where there is Light, there is Shadow; where there is Life, there is Death.

In the story I originally told, the man drained the lifeforce off in just fifteen minutes using a photograph. The Kahuna death prayer used spirits to kill in three days by draining off the lifeforce. Is it really just the mana?

When you learn how to work with this force, sit down with a potted plant and try to pull out all of the Life Force in it. If you have sufficiently trained and acquired the skill of actually controlling your energy, you will watch the plant whither right before your eyes. If you truly "drain" it, after a few hours, maybe a day, you will come back and see it completely dead. There is no sophisticated trick to this, it's a ridiculously easy manipulation of energy. It must be noted that all actions have consequences, however, and literally sucking the life out of something does not feel good. It is far more rewarding to give energy to your plants and to others, if only for the amusement of seeing everyone's reaction to your plants blooming while everyone else's died for the season.

What is VLF? Vital life force?

Yeah, that.

Also I can see my post got a little obscure - pretty much it's just my current status in where things are at on my own research of lifeforce. To sum it up a little neater I would have to assume that its either the same thing as kundalini or intertwined with it close enough that I can't really tell the difference yet. I'm wanting to figure out how to put it to positive use, get lasting results, and take enough to experiment with and see for myself what works and what doesn't.

If it was just Kundalini, they wouldn't call it Prana. India has an extremely long tradition of working with these things, and is extremely sophisticated in their study and work. Crowley once said that there are two main energies that Yoga works with. One, Prana, he discussed. The other, which was Kundalini even though he refused to mention it by name, he deemed too important and sacred to even speak of before his Western audience. They are on completely different scales of importance, not to mention function. They are technically related and connected, but I have worked with "Life Force" for many years now, and never once have I even touched Kundalini.



~:Shin:~

[Desecrated]

The problem is that you question is to big.
Basically what you are asking is, what controls the universe and how does it manifest itself.

Well, to be honest. We don't know.
Many cultures have tried to explain this in many different ways, and You'll find different words for it, and even more complexity when you stat asking about the details.

I think when people talk about the life-force it can means two things;
1. The force that brings everything into life
2. the force of live especially assigned to you.

(these two are not necessary separate)

This is an interesting Chinese way of thinking about lifeforce that was posted a couple of weeks ago.
http://www.sacredlotus.com/go/foundatio ... -substance

[Desecrated]

"The fluid theory of electricity[1] (and "Two-fluid" theory[2]) is a now defunct theory that postulated an electrical fluid which was responsible for many electrical phenomena in the history of electromagnetism. "

Magnetic force is the strength of magnetism within a magnetic filed.
A magnetic field is the magnetic influence of electric currents and magnetic materials.

"In physics, particularly electromagnetism, the Lorentz force is the combination of electric and magnetic force on a point charge due to electromagnetic fields. If a particle of charge q moves with velocity v in the presence of an electric field E and a magnetic field B, then it will experience a force. For any produced force there will be an opposite reactive force. In the case of the magnetic field, the reactive force may be obscure, but it must be accounted for."

It's technically possible to drain someones field by imposing your field into theirs.

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

If it was just Kundalini, they wouldn't call it Prana. India has an extremely long tradition of working with these things, and is extremely sophisticated in their study and work. Crowley once said that there are two main energies that Yoga works with. One, Prana, he discussed. The other, which was Kundalini even though he refused to mention it by name, he deemed too important and sacred to even speak of before his Western audience. They are on completely different scales of importance, not to mention function. They are technically related and connected, but I have worked with "Life Force" for many years now, and never once have I even touched Kundalini.

Any particular way you'd describe the sensation of prana when it makes itself noticeable? I'm still trying to figure out what I'm working with - its definitely something but it can be difficult to tell whether it's sentient in and of itself or whether my mind is just imprinting a highly plastic medium.

[Shinichi]

If it was just Kundalini, they wouldn't call it Prana. India has an extremely long tradition of working with these things, and is extremely sophisticated in their study and work. Crowley once said that there are two main energies that Yoga works with. One, Prana, he discussed. The other, which was Kundalini even though he refused to mention it by name, he deemed too important and sacred to even speak of before his Western audience. They are on completely different scales of importance, not to mention function. They are technically related and connected, but I have worked with "Life Force" for many years now, and never once have I even touched Kundalini.

Any particular way you'd describe the sensation of prana when it makes itself noticeable? I'm still trying to figure out what I'm working with - its definitely something but it can be difficult to tell whether it's sentient in and of itself or whether my mind is just imprinting a highly plastic medium.

Have you ever taken a really deep breath, or maybe yawned, and felt a little tingle or a shiver somewhere? What you seem to be describing is an issue of Awareness -- Prana moves in and out and circulates through the body with every single breath, and this is why Pranayama is such a big deal in Yoga. Try paying attention to what happens when you breath, and you'll start to notice a few things that happens as that circulation process occurs. I again strongly recommend The Science of Breath, which I provided a link for in my first post in this thread.

Once you're Aware of it and, more importantly, once it is stronger in your system, the feelings you get can become stronger. The tingles that beginners usually feel are largely because, on the physical level, Prana circulates through the central nervous system (think about Acupuncture, and the overlap of Meridians and Nerves), but with practice you can and should learn the difference between basic physical signals and prana itself -- in other words, use the effect to discern the cause. It can also feel, primarily, Hot or Cold, which is mainly the Electric and Magnetic Fluids circulating through it (or part of the metaphysical detox process most beginners undergo, though that part is usually only felt during practices like pranayama, not all the time). When your internal prana gets stronger it'll usually feel more like electricity, like you have a static charge circulating through you. And if you do things like Accumulation to actually build a charge, "static charge" can sometimes be a very apt description. Although I've never seen anything like DBZ, hair does tend to stand up a bit, particularly the smaller hairs on your body. You can also fry electronics if you aren't careful with a strong aura.

It also helps if you don't rely entirely on physical feedback, though. Clairsentience and the other psychic senses are important to develop when working with metaphysical forces, but Prana in particular is easily developed with Pranayama.



~:Shin:~

[Rin]

"The fluid theory of electricity[1] (and "Two-fluid" theory[2]) is a now defunct theory that postulated an electrical fluid which was responsible for many electrical phenomena in the history of electromagnetism. "

Magnetic force is the strength of magnetism within a magnetic filed.
A magnetic field is the magnetic influence of electric currents and magnetic materials.

"In physics, particularly electromagnetism, the Lorentz force is the combination of electric and magnetic force on a point charge due to electromagnetic fields. If a particle of charge q moves with velocity v in the presence of an electric field E and a magnetic field B, then it will experience a force. For any produced force there will be an opposite reactive force. In the case of the magnetic field, the reactive force may be obscure, but it must be accounted for."

It's technically possible to drain someones field by imposing your field into theirs.

When people refer to "electric" or "magnetic" fluid/energy they aren't referring to the literal, physical electromagnetism of physics (although there are strong parallels, as there are with elemental energies and their physical manifestations). They're referring to dualistic metaphysical forces which were given these names because on a metaphorical level, they possess many similarities to electricity and magnetism and, when condensed and made manifest on the physical level, they express properties similar (although not identical) to electricity and magnetism (eg. someone who can accumulate and condense enough of the electric fluid can use it to light a lightbulb - although doesn't show up on a voltmeter*). They're simply terms adopted by certain writers in the early/mind 20th century (borrowed from the Mesmerism movement of the 19th century iirc) who chose names for these forces which would be familiar to Western readers who they didn't want to overwhelm with Eastern terminology and cosmology - they could just as easily have called them Yang and Yin chi (and people often refer to them as "electric/yang" or "magnetic/yin," or use them interchangeably), or any of the other terms which exist for the concept in various eastern philosophies.

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

I again strongly recommend The Science of Breath, which I provided a link for in my first post in this thread.

TY, I'll have to rip into that and see what I can figure out.

[Horny Goat]

Well this has certainly been a very rewarding thread. At first I didn't think anyone was much interested but it's really opened up. Must have been the new year period. Thank you all for your replies.

Sinichi, could the second energy you refer to that Crowley would not name have not been kundalini but instead be the sexual energy? Many writers have been very coy on this well into the 20th century. They all considered it's use in magick to be very powerful and were wary of revealing it to the public for fear of it's ease of access and use.

[Rin]

Sinichi, could the second energy you refer to that Crowley would not name have not been kundalini but instead be the sexual energy? Many writers have been very coy on this well into the 20th century. They all considered it's use in magick to be very powerful and were wary of revealing it to the public for fear of it's ease of access and use.

I have a hard time imagining Crowley refusing to write on any matter sexual :p

The two concepts of sexual (generative) energy and kundalini energy are often very closely intertwined, to the point where they're often written of as if they are the same force, but my understanding is that rather the generative energy is a dense, tightly packed quantity of vital energy (although in the Daoist texts it's given it's own name, jing - essence -*, to distinguish it from vital energy, or Chi) within the sexual fluids which builds up when the individual (at least, a male individual, I'm not quite sure on the female mechanics and there's not a lot of literature on the matter**, although plenty of women have raised the kundalini) is sexually abstinent and therefore becomes available to "charge" the root chakra (alternately placed at the perineum or the coccyx) and trigger the rising of the dormant kundalini. The generative energy can also be utilized for other matters in internal development, or circulate the system to provide general invigoration.

I'm not sure that this is 100% accurate (as I've also been told by reliable sources that activating the kundalini can be done without sexual abstinence, or the involvement of sexual forces at all, but that just means there are multiple methods, although every method I've heard has involved sexual energy in some way), but I do know that 1) the only Kundalini-like experience I've had was after a long period of sexual abstinence, 2) when I became sexually active again afterwards, there was a definite loss of vitality, and I've experienced the same loss of vitality after other extended periods of sexual abstinence, and 3) I've been given various figures, but in traditional Eastern medicine and energetic anatomy, 1 drop of semen is generally considered to be the equivalent to anywhere between 10 and 100 drops of blood, depending on who you ask (although that isn't actually a whole lot of blood, come to think of it). The most recent figure I heard was 1 drop semen > 10 drops bone marrow > 100 drops blood (or possibly 1 > 100 > 1000, I was busy training when the conversation took place).

*This causes no end of consternation in Daoist and Martial Arts circles, as there's a word with a different Chinese character but which is also usually translated as 'Jing,' although meaning Power or Force, and is generally preceded by the term 'nei-' (Internal), so "neijing" or internal force/power. Generally within the context of the internal martial arts like Taiji or Baguazhang - so the capability of a practitioner to express his internal energy as tangible martial power - which can allegedly be anything from strengthened blows to electricity-like discharges of harmful energy into the opponent's system to kung fu cinema style projections of striking energy over a distance (although I'd stress the alleged part, especially on that last one). Anyway, they have almost as much fun arguing over the relation between the two concepts as students of GD spinoff groups have arguing over Kabbalistic correspondences and Lodge drama.

**I've read books which claim the female equivalent is menstrual blood, or vaginal lubricant, or some other fluid within the womb, but none of them backed this up substantially. There are also schools of thought which maintain that women gain energy after sex rather than lose it, either as a result of some internal energetic function or directly transferred from the male. I would guess the relatively smaller number of mystics who are women (and the less spreading of their practices into the mainstream) is the cause of this dearth of information.

[grimmos]

dark creatures emerging from black holes to destroy earth jos get the defence ammediately

[Shinichi]

Sinichi, could the second energy you refer to that Crowley would not name have not been kundalini but instead be the sexual energy? Many writers have been very coy on this well into the 20th century. They all considered it's use in magick to be very powerful and were wary of revealing it to the public for fear of it's ease of access and use.

That's an amusing and perhaps a fair theory, but you must remember that Crowley (who was many things, but rarely coy) spoke of sexual energy quite often, and also the Hindu culture is not very liberal in those matters. Kundalini in the lower chakras creates sexual energy and lustful urges, especially when it is rising to the second chakra where those urges are ruled, but sexual energy also creates Kundalini. This is why sexual discipline is important in all systems that use Kundalini Yoga -- complete celibacy is not always necessary if certain measures are taken, but sexual energy shouldn't be wasted. The two energies are tightly bound, though they are distinctly separate things and there is no doubt in my mind that Kundalini is the energy that Crowley refused to speak of.

But while this subject may be interesting for some, I feel the urge to point out that it's not necessary to work with Kundalini and the Chakras at all. Even in India, there are many schools of Yoga that lead to Samadhi and a number of them do not work with Kundalini. Kundalini Yoga is a good system (when practiced correctly), but everyone should remember that there is more than one path up the mountain, and not all of them cross on the way up. Just because something works doesn't mean you have to use it, especially if you find yourself more comfortable with other methods.



~:Shin:~

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

Speaking of sexuality again, as opposed to abstinence is one-pointedness a fair plan if used constructively? I'm thinking of either an entity, a mandala, or something else where one just takes deliberate discipline to put their sexual energy consistently in one place without deviating.

[Shinichi]

Speaking of sexuality again, as opposed to abstinence is one-pointedness a fair plan if used constructively? I'm thinking of either an entity, a mandala, or something else where one just takes deliberate discipline to put their sexual energy consistently in one place without deviating.

That may sound like a novel idea, but a lot of time and energy is wasted in doing something like that. You don't need to store sexually flavored prana in an object somewhere and then have to call it back when you want to use it. I don't even have a good analogy to demonstrate how wasteful that is. [unsure]

Complete abstinence is not necessary, though. It's helpful for the monks and in certain short term circumstances, but most of us aren't monks, and even in the Indian traditions where this is strongly rooted there are Householder practitioners. Remember that the gods also have consorts and children. Sexual Discipline just means not wasting it at every turn by messing around just because you feel a tingle. If you share your energy with someone you are mutually in love with regularly (which is not excessively), you'll usually end up with more energy instead of the dispersal that some feel. Properly making love with someone is a spiritual experience in a class of its own. [wink2]



~:Shin:~