The lone path in the occult.

[Draco20]

Hi,

I was wondering what experienced occultists might think about this, I was recently listening to an interview with Greg Kaminsky of Occult Of Personality (see here: http://peopleofshambhala.com/spiritual- ... -interview) and he mentionned that looking back he wouldn't recommend people to start in the occult alone because of the danger and that they might actually be loosing their time.

What do you think about that? As for myself, I am pretty much alone in this. This how I started, I am a self-taught person and I read books, gather informations online ect and try to apply some of my knowledge (which is still quite basic) in meaningful ways. I am not part of any group or with any 'master' to teach me esotoric or occult concepts. As matter of fact, I don't believe there is any such 'occult group' in the area where I live, or at any rate they do not expose themselves publicly.

Are you a loner in the path of occult learning?

[Desecrated]

I haven't found anybody that has anybody to teach me. But if I did, I would like to try it.
If not, I'll just continue by myself.

[EternalReturn]

I have some friends with which I can share experience, knowledge and advices. But most of the time, I am alone. But I don't see it as a bad thing - you learn to take responsibility, to rely on yourself and to do things that need a little bravery. There is a chance of going the wrong way, but it is only another obstacle to be overcome.

[TheAwakenedHeart]

This is just my opinion...

Magick is no different from any other course of study.

Home schooled kids do better than public school kids on average.

Public school kids do better than kids who have no teachers at all, at home or otherwise.

So the ideal situation, to me, is to be home-schooled, where knowledge of magick is passed down to you either directly from a parent who practiced magick, or a "master" who will teach you one on one.

The second best situation is to be in a school setting. For example, the University of Delphi, a metaphysical school.

The third best situation is to be working with a group, so an exchange of ideas and division of labor can take place.

And the fourth best is to be completely self taught with no in-person help.

Unfortunately, most people seem to be in the fourth best situation.

I myself am currently working with a specific group to develop consciousness, but I have not yet found a group specifically for magick. I hope to find one. Anyway, I consider myself lucky to have found a group at all.

Just my 2 cents.

[Clockwork Ghost]

I was wondering what experienced occultists might think about this, I was recently listening to an interview with Greg Kaminsky of Occult Of Personality and he mentionned that looking back he wouldn't recommend people to start in the occult alone because of the danger and that they might actually be loosing their time.

I both agree and disagree with this statement. While I feel it is correct in regards to people with little access to occult material, who may simply read a few books or web pages, who then don't have the drive to build upon their knowledge using other methods and mediums, I also think that a lone occultist in this day and age is fully capable of developing a rewarding and constructive practice. Someone working solely on their own, maybe in a community that is strongly against the occult, who has no ability to contact others with similar interest and no access to any material they can fully understand will more than likely be wasting their time. Someone operating on their own who has access to the internet, to occult based forums, authors of books they may read during the course of their studies, and other member who are also online has every chance of creating for them a strong paradigm which they can build upon throughout their studies.

What do you think about that? As for myself, I am pretty much alone in this. This how I started, I am a self-taught person and I read books, gather informations online ect and try to apply some of my knowledge (which is still quite basic) in meaningful ways. I am not part of any group or with any 'master' to teach me esotoric or occult concepts. As matter of fact, I don't believe there is any such 'occult group' in the area where I live, or at any rate they do not expose themselves publicly.

Have you considered online occult groups? Granted, groups you can physically join will prove much more beneficial, as you will be able to practice what you learn with them, but online groups can provide support and companionship with other like-mined individuals, if that's what you're looking for. Being part of this forum makes you a member of an 'occult group'. A group is simply two or more people who interact with one another, share similar characteristics and collectively have a sense of unity. If you think that definition to be too simplistic, 'Social Identity Theory simply suggests that a group is just a collection of people who wish to identify with one another - acknowledging that you are part of a group is all you need to do in order to be a member of one.

Are you a loner in the path of occult learning?

I started off as a loner, yes. When I started studying the occult there wasn't anything like the connectivity we enjoy today - this was before the internet was in popular use, back in the 80's. Since then I've been a part of many groups. I recently asked Taylor Ellwood for his views on group versus individual practice, and it was his view that working alone is much more effective. He says that group work is rarely that beneficial unless all the members of the group can enter into a shared state of altered consciousness. Without this state, group work isn't as effective, as it relies on every member understanding the material they are using in to exactly the same degree as other members of the group do. This only really applies to group-based ritual however - if you are solely using a group for knowledge and companionship, then there is nothing wrong with being a member of a group.

I've found being a member of a group to both be very beneficial and very destructive to my magickal studies. Being a member of a group can make you feel like you know nothing, or that your knowledge is worthless, especially when other members who you respect don't understand what you are saying and dismiss your ideas out of hand. There are ignorant people everywhere - people who feel that things they either don't agree with or don't understand must be wrong. Being a member of a group can also be very beneficial, as it allows you to teach others your ideas - teaching someone something is a very effective way of making sure you understand it yourself.

[manofsands]

... he mentionned that looking back he wouldn't recommend people to start in the occult alone because of the danger and that they might actually be loosing their time.

What does it mean "loosing their time"?

What do you think about that? As for myself, I am pretty much alone in this. This how I started, I am a self-taught person and I read books, gather informations online ect and try to apply some of my knowledge (which is still quite basic) in meaningful ways ... Are you a loner in the path of occult learning?

I believe most of the greatest lessons come from looking within. Examining and understanding thyself. As such, I think being alone is common for the progressed seeker.

[Draco20]

Thanks a lot for your insights. I learned about the occult alone and I still plan to acquire more knowledge as a self-taught. I am glad I have joined a forum like this one to discuss these subjects. But IRL the perspective of joining a group are basically null, there just aren't any such occult group within a reasonable distance. My friends and relative are seeing my passion for the paranormal/occult as an oddity of mine and even though I may discuss it once in a while, I don't push my beliefs on people. Still, an 'occult-minded friend' would be nice, I am still quite young, who knows what life will be like in 5,10 or 20 years?

To be fair, I don't know if Greg was considering self-taught people in his remark. It is true that some people need a teacher and a stimulating environment to facilitate learning, they need the motivation and support to go on. That is not really my case, I am more of an introverted, an avid book reader and geek and if things were different I suppose I would never had bothered with esotericism and the occult in the first place. But to each it's path.

What does it mean "loosing their time"?

I think Greg meant that (some) people wouldn't be effective in studying occult systems alone, therefore won't be able yo apply these systems properly in their lives and so would quite literally be 'loosing their time'. I suppose 'loosing time' means in this context that it isn't spent in an efficent manner. It could therefore be put to better use. But then you might want to listen to the interview, perhaps you would interpret it differently.

[Jaq]

I studied magic alone from books from age 12 to when I first started meeting groups, around age 20.

If someone is mentally unstable, there are dangers. Unfortunately things like the occult attract people with problems. I think the most important thing is to have enough sense to take things in stages, like learning any skill. If your first ever spell is to get revenge on someone, it probably won't end well for you.