Post-modern Altars & Rituals

[cyberdemon]

Could you make 4d pictures of locations using the oculus? If so i can see people using it while preparing to astral project to some location (some street in france, the bottom of the ocean, mars). They should consider working with NASA to get 4d images of different planets, i would happily use it to walk around on venus [tongue]

*3D actually. We're not completely physical to the fourth dimension we can perceive, which is time. Technically speaking the Oculus Rift can be used with Google Maps Street View for that exact purpose. Rift is a VR device or Virtual Reality device. What we'd ideally want to use is an AR or Augmented Reality device, like Google glass, to put displays and things on real life things in front of us..

Venus is mostly molten lava and stuff and I don't think they could land cameras on it.

[thatrandomguy]

there are some lava resistant material, they could technically put it in just long enough to get a picture, although for a constant stream it would be hard considering the fact that even if it could handle the temperature, the pressure of the lava would probably destroy it.

[cyberdemon]

there are some lava resistant material, they could technically put it in just long enough to get a picture, although for a constant stream it would be hard considering the fact that even if it could handle the temperature, the pressure of the lava would probably destroy it.

It's actually not even necessary. A virtual environment can be easily computer generated with the information we have already. It's just that the technology to actually use it in a VR device isn't here yet.

[the_spiral]

As per earlier comments, ancestor veneration and reincarnation are absolutely not incompatible beliefs. Even if you believe their souls have moved on to the next incarnation, they remain present with you at every moment through your own DNA (and that's at bare minimum even if you're skeptical of spiritual omnipresence or the possibility of astral encounters).

[thatrandomguy]

It's actually not even necessary. A virtual environment can be easily computer generated with the information we have already. It's just that the technology to actually use it in a VR device isn't here yet.

meh i prefer it if they actually took a picture of venus [tongue] . it won't take that long to develop the technology required, i predict people are gonna use the oculus to create "interactive animated erotica" [yay] [crazy] .

[thatrandomguy]

As per earlier comments, ancestor veneration and reincarnation are absolutely not incompatible beliefs. Even if you believe their souls have moved on to the next incarnation, they remain present with you at every moment through your own DNA (and that's at bare minimum even if you're skeptical of spiritual omnipresence or the possibility of astral encounters).

hmm i've always wondered why they would try to harm their successors if not venerated properly in some cultures.
the idea of people unconsciously projecting as ancestors may be a good explanation.

[cyberdemon]

As per earlier comments, ancestor veneration and reincarnation are absolutely not incompatible beliefs. Even if you believe their souls have moved on to the next incarnation, they remain present with you at every moment through your own DNA (and that's at bare minimum even if you're skeptical of spiritual omnipresence or the possibility of astral encounters).

It's not that. If it's a working theory then DNA has nothing to do with guidance from ancestors via invocation..

meh i prefer it if they actually took a picture of venus [tongue] . it won't take that long to develop the technology required, i predict people are gonna use the oculus to create "interactive animated erotica" [yay] [crazy] .

Within a few hundred years, yes.
And that's exactly what they're going to create first!

hmm i've always wondered why they would try to harm their successors if not venerated properly in some cultures.
the idea of people unconsciously projecting as ancestors may be a good explanation.

Possibly bored demons faking it for a chance to mess with human lives. We've already enough random demons doing that to ouija board users..

[Desecrated]

Personally, I just like the looks of a traditional alter.

I have a bunch of magical stuff and tools, so I arranged them in a traditional looking form.

And then when I work magic, I usually just pick what I need from the "alter" and place it where I need it.

Also keeping up with tradition I have one "public alter" that I allow people to see, and one secret alter that I keep hidden.

[the_spiral]

Possibly bored demons faking it for a chance to mess with human lives. We've already enough random demons doing that to ouija board users..

Oh yeah, awesome, bash a millenia-old magical practice that is foundational to numerous occult paradigms as "bored demons messing with people." That's a GREAT way to attract a diverse community of practitioners to this forum. But hey, it doesn't employ your precious Standard Set so it must be bullshit. Peace out and good luck with your new chaos magic/demonolatry board, hope you achieve an evocation soon! [thumbup]

[Sypheara]

Probably a bit snappy, but correct in that it shuts down discussion.

There is particular thign of interest to note about ouija board hauntings.

You have the supposed spirit of the ouija board itself, with calls itself ZOZO. It is known to be highly mischievous, sometimes even to the point of maliciousness. Why this demon is linked with this particular divination tool i have no firm idea, but my personal suspicion is that because this spirit is like a spider, with ouija boards being its web' These boards attract easy prey who see it purely as a game, and are often easily manipulated to feed it. I have always wondered if someone was to approach it respectfully, if said chthonic spirit would act in a similar manner. However in my opinion, divination by many otherways spirit wise is prefered.

When it comes to ancestor veneration, there are numerous reasons as to why 'ancestors' can be hostile. I don't work with my bloodline ancestors, just my ancestors related via spiritual tradition. The reason is it is a known fact, as with many others, that every ancestry contains blood links to murderers, rapists, paedophiles etc some time back in the family tree. This kinds of spirits can also reappear when bloodline ancestors are venerated, ergo the need to constantly feed, etc them as those particular ghosts are of the dark dead. This is the reason why not feeding these hungry ghosts can be dangerous in an bloodline ancestral worshipping tradition, in my experience and practice. Thats not to say its not valid - every occultist i believe should at some point work with their spiritual and bloodline ancestors, it opens alot of avenues with the soul.

[the_spiral]

I'd probably be nicer about it if I wasn't seeing multiple examples of paradigm-bashing popping up around here lately, as well as other behavior that seems to be scaring a lot of experienced practitioners away. But thank you for explaining those key points with more patience than I have right now

[cyberdemon]

Possibly bored demons faking it for a chance to mess with human lives. We've already enough random demons doing that to ouija board users..

Oh yeah, awesome, bash a millenia-old magical practice that is foundational to numerous occult paradigms as "bored demons messing with people." That's a GREAT way to attract a diverse community of practitioners to this forum. But hey, it doesn't employ your precious Standard Set so it must be bullshit. Peace out and good luck with your new chaos magic/demonolatry board, hope you achieve an evocation soon! [thumbup]

Sigh. There's no paradigm bashing going on here, actually. The problem with these boards is that once someone draws parallels, people become reluctant to defend or explain their beliefs or even have a mind open enough to understand that there's truly no such thing as a paradigm, there's only magick and different aspects of it.

My precious Standard Set hardly covers everything, but as a demonologist I have to look at everything from a specific view-point, which the way I understand it, is able to cover and explain everything. It's just different terminology in the end. You should be able to tell I have little to no knowledge about your paradigm, and just like me you should be up for spreading your own paradigm's beliefs around.

Probably a bit snappy, but correct in that it shuts down discussion.

There is particular thign of interest to note about ouija board hauntings.

You have the supposed spirit of the ouija board itself, with calls itself ZOZO. It is known to be highly mischievous, sometimes even to the point of maliciousness. Why this demon is linked with this particular divination tool i have no firm idea, but my personal suspicion is that because this spirit is like a spider, with ouija boards being its web' These boards attract easy prey who see it purely as a game, and are often easily manipulated to feed it. I have always wondered if someone was to approach it respectfully, if said chthonic spirit would act in a similar manner. However in my opinion, divination by many otherways spirit wise is prefered.

I've heard of the Zozo! And I've always wondered why nobody's tried to respectfully approach it. There's a lack of ouija board manufacture in the region I live, so I'd have to import one. I might just do it, actually.

When it comes to ancestor veneration, there are numerous reasons as to why 'ancestors' can be hostile. I don't work with my bloodline ancestors, just my ancestors related via spiritual tradition. The reason is it is a known fact, as with many others, that every ancestry contains blood links to murderers, rapists, paedophiles etc some time back in the family tree. This kinds of spirits can also reappear when bloodline ancestors are venerated, ergo the need to constantly feed, etc them as those particular ghosts are of the dark dead. This is the reason why not feeding these hungry ghosts can be dangerous in an bloodline ancestral worshipping tradition, in my experience and practice. Thats not to say its not valid - every occultist i believe should at some point work with their spiritual and bloodline ancestors, it opens alot of avenues with the soul.

Thank you! This explains a lot to me, actually. If you don't mind answering a few more questions then..
If we consider reincarnation as a working thing, does it mean that these spirits have not yet achieved reincarnation? Or could it be that they are unable to reincarnate at all?
Secondly, what do you mean by spiritual ancestor?

[the_spiral]

but as a demonologist I have to look at everything from a specific view-point, which the way I understand it, is able to cover and explain everything.

Everything? Really? Well then perhaps your mind isn't open enough to notice you've built yourself a paradigm already, and are now using this forum to promote it and demand other people "defend" their practices (which we were previously able to discuss here freely without having to explain why they don't fit neatly into cyberdemon's theory of everything) to a forum moderator with a history of picking fights with people, and who's already preemptively dismissed them all as "bored demons". And not everyone believes in reincarnation in the same way you do (or even at all) so have fun trying to make your personal working theory fit every spiritual tradition on earth, including the ones you know nothing about. But I'm out for now, I'm sure there are more patient people here than me who can explain a few of them to you.

[cyberdemon]

but as a demonologist I have to look at everything from a specific view-point, which the way I understand it, is able to cover and explain everything.

Everything? Really? Well then perhaps your mind isn't open enough to notice you've built yourself a paradigm already, and are now using this forum to promote it and demand other people "defend" their practices (which we were previously able to discuss here freely without having to explain why they don't fit neatly into cyberdemon's theory of everything) to a forum moderator with a history of picking fights with people, and who's already preemptively dismissed them all as "bored demons". And not everyone believes in reincarnation in the same way you do (or even at all) so have fun trying to make your personal working theory fit every spiritual tradition on earth, including the ones you know nothing about. But I'm out for now, I'm sure there are more patient people here than me who can explain a few of them to you.

Sadly, you're mistaken. My paradigm is Demonology and Chaos Magick, and these are my methods. If me sharing my knowledge makes you uncomfortable, either share yours or don't complain.

The only thing I'm promoting is sharing knowledge, which you are reluctant to do so and much like other members who have left. I never challenged any of your paradigms, but I asked for your views. I didn't pick fights, I pointed out the exact problem - which was the reluctance of other members to step out of their narrow comfort zone of we-are-the-only-people-here. Does it scare you that other paradigm practitioners exist? Ones like chaotes that can build theory with and work using all the others? Does it intimidate you that chaotes have questions you can't answer?

Anyway, don't bring up old matters that were firmly settled in the past. And no, I didn't call you a bored demon, don't flatter yourself. Now kindly leave, especially if you're unwilling to share what you know with those willing to learn. Your kind is exactly what is a disgrace to all occultists everywhere. May your deities have mercy on your soul.

And yes, I will use my powers as Global Moderator next time if you decide to try to continue to fight.

Oh yes, as for reincarnation..
It either exists, or it doesn't. So far, there is evidence that it does - thus it must also have more technical aspects to it. It's a post-modern time and I'm obliged to try to find out more to develop an understanding of this possibility. Simply, beliefs alone have no firm ground to stand on anymore. Welcome to occultism, and farewell.

[Frumens]

I'm confused. Are you all talking about ancestor veneration, or ouija boards, or both put together?

Compassion is the antidote to anger.

[cyberdemon]

I'm confused. Are you all talking about ancestor veneration, or ouija boards, or both put together?

Compassion is the antidote to anger.

We went from post-modern altars to contacting entities using technology to contact higher beings, to virtual reality, then to ancestor veneration to reincarnation theory to ouija boards to reported demonic activities involving ouija boards..
All of which deserve different threads of their own in all respect really. I'd rather get back to any of them.

[Liberator]

Crossroads are notorious haunts around here, especially in the countryside. I can see why it is a good idea to leave offerings there. Personally I think graveyards are places that shouldn't be disturbed. Since we're talking about ancestor veneration.. Any insight on the mechanics of spirits of the dead? Reincarnation theory? I've considered performing rituals to communicate with the dead but I don't have much of the knowledge required so I stick to directly calling up higher beings (ie. 'demons').

I should note that I don't perform rituals very often. It's not exactly an art to repeat and practice over and over, what with the side effects that come with it. Once in a while and at times of need..

Why is it and how are crossroads notorious haunts?

[cyberdemon]

Crossroads are notorious haunts around here, especially in the countryside.

Why is it and how are crossroads notorious haunts?

I can't say why, but I can say how.

There is a local superstition that structures that are diagonal to the compass points and structures that are open and match compass points are more suitable for the passage of "djinns".
In places of low inhabitation, countrysides for example, crossroads get dark fast at dusk and people tend to avoid them.

There are reports that people take wrong turns at night as if they are influenced by something and end up somewhere they cannot recognize as anywhere you can normally get to from crossroads during the day. This includes mirage/disappearing buildings. They report a feeling being followed or being led astray, sometimes mentioning jack-o-lantern like entities. Finding graves, corpses or dark creatures is also a common report.