What route should I follow when training with Liber Null?

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VrbsSou
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What route should I follow when training with Liber Null?

Post by VrbsSou »

Greetings. I started training with Liber Null some few days ago (less than a week) and I've been able to achieve consistently over 10 minutes of motionlessness. Once I achieved 15 minutes, and once I achieved 14, so I think I'm not doing too bad here.

Now, I have some questions about following this book.
  • I've heard some criticism about Caroll's style and about the book, while I've also heard praise. What side is more "correct" than the other? Is Liber Null truly a good book for a beginner?
  • Do I move on to breath control once I achieve 15 minutes again?
  • When I get to not-thinking, how much should I expect to achieve before moving on to concentration?
  • When I get to concentration training, what schedule should I follow? Which training goes first and for how long?
  • Should I keep a dream diary right now?
  • When do I start doing rituals and sigils? When I get to Liber Lux, or once I'm done with concentration training?
Thank you and sorry for asking too much.

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magari
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Re: What route should I follow when training with Liber Null

Post by magari »

Magick is a world of uncertainty

You will lack a guide for most of your journey

Do what you feel is right for you and the universe and you will never be far off.

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Re: What route should I follow when training with Liber Null

Post by VrbsSou »

I've lacked a guide for all of this time, trying to find a basic structure I can begin with. I picked Liber Null because chaos magick seems the path that better suits me (non-dogmatic, anything goes, etc), and even then it gives a guide. So I'm unsure about everything.

Damn I'm confused...

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magari
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Re: What route should I follow when training with Liber Null

Post by magari »

Magick is not 1+1=2

A guide is exactly that. A recommended way from point A to point B. No one starts in the same place and ends up in the same spot.

Find your intuition. Develop your intuition. Follow your intuition.

Use the guide, see what works for you and what doesn't. Never stop learning. Continue exploring ALL paradigms. Chaos magick focuses on one aspect of the big picture. The more you explore, the better you will get at chaos magick.

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Maya The Generator
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Re: What route should I follow when training with Liber Null

Post by Maya The Generator »

If you want I encourage to join our little school [yay] We are currently going through the basics from Liber Null. You surely will find there some companions and perspective(which for someone who starts is much, I assure [thumbup] ).

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Re: What route should I follow when training with Liber Null

Post by Desecrated »

I've heard some criticism about Caroll's style and about the book, while I've also heard praise. What side is more "correct" than the other? Is Liber Null truly a good book for a beginner?

It's not the first book I would read, But yes, it is a good book for beginners. One of the better actually.
People who complain about Carrol are usually traditional magicians who simply don't agree with his methods at all. It's like muslims complaining about christian. It's the same religion, they just have different methods of interpretation, and some have added something that others haven't added. And then they start argue over details and the negative shit never ends.

Don't worry about what others say.

Do I move on to breath control once I achieve 15 minutes again?

You can move on, or you can just add it upon your current practice.
I recommend still incorporating it some. There are Buddhist monks that spends years doing nothing but breath control.


When I get to not-thinking, how much should I expect to achieve before moving on to concentration?

How will you know the time if you are not thinking.... :D


When I get to concentration training, what schedule should I follow? Which training goes first and for how long?

Easiest stuff first, harder stuff later.
Keep going till you feel like it's good enough.

If you go to the gym, should you lift 8 times or 10? Well that depends on how much you can do.
If you fell like 5 minutes is exhausting then do 5 minutes. if you feel like nothing really happens before you do it for at least 30 minutes. do that.


Should I keep a dream diary right now?
Keep doing your dream journal for at least a year.
Most keep doing it the rest of their lives.


When do I start doing rituals and sigils? When I get to Liber Lux, or once I'm done with concentration training?

When you know that you are ready.

Not when you feel that you are ready, or think that you are ready, When you know.

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Re: What route should I follow when training with Liber Null

Post by VrbsSou »

@magari: That's a good way for someone who already trusts his intuition. Not me though. I've barely felt how intuition works, only once as far as I can remember. I'm not too intuitive, so I need something basic that leads me to develop it. If I don't have anything as a guide I'll stay as stray as I'm now (and as I've felt for the last few months... or maybe for the last year or two?).

@Maya: I've read a bit about the school! So, do I just ask for an invitation? Who is more proper to ask one for? If there was someone I could ask my questions no matter how dumb I'd feel more relieved.

@Desecrated: Maybe I'm focusing too much on time and too little on the actual experience. Thank you, I must learn to let go of the notion of "alright today I'll do so many minutes of this training". And your answer clarifies my questions. Thank you very much.

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Re: What route should I follow when training with Liber Null

Post by beero »

I am taking the Liber MMM course at the school it is very good. you have to complete a short application form the details are on that section of the forum.

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Re: What route should I follow when training with Liber Null

Post by VrbsSou »

Thank you, I'll do that right away!

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Re: What route should I follow when training with Liber Null

Post by Haelos »

I like Liber Null as a book, but mostly for the theory section.
As a book for training (I've posted this so many times) I would recommend the book Initiation into Hermetics, by Franz Bardon.
It's based off of the Hermetic practices, but is extremely dogma free, although it does have a somewhat strict working path.
It will essentially take you from complete novice to full adept when followed properly, although over the course of several years.
These are some of the single-most important learning requirements needed to perform magick, that a lot of books skip past.
I also recommend this thread written by one of our members, that has a similar style as the book mentioned, although it doesn't take you as far.
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 57&t=37025
Most of what the other members have said is fantastic advice, and should be well heeded. Hopefully you find everything you're looking for and more.
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Re: What route should I follow when training with Liber Null

Post by SpWrt »

Maya The Generator wrote:If you want I encourage to join our little school [yay] We are currently going through the basics from Liber Null. You surely will find there some companions and perspective(which for someone who starts is much, I assure [thumbup] ).

Praise Teh Sun \[T]/ [cool]
Hello - I am new to the forum, and to Chaos Magick.
Could you elaborate on this school? I would love to know more about this - or any other "classes" or groups out there which focuses on Chaos Magick/IOT. Much appreciated!

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Re: What route should I follow when training with Liber Null

Post by Clockwork Ghost »

Firstly, the school isn't associated with the IOT, they're a completely separate group, I have nothing to do with them. I've been doing Liber MMM for over six years now, every day, and include it in the lessons as it's very effective for any form of magickal training.

Check out the school board for more information on joining up. I've added a link to the thread below.

http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 58&t=37392

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SpWrt
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Re: What route should I follow when training with Liber Null

Post by SpWrt »

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:Firstly, the school isn't associated with the IOT, they're a completely separate group, I have nothing to do with them. I've been doing Liber MMM for over six years now, every day, and include it in the lessons as it's very effective for any form of magickal training.

Check out the school board for more information on joining up. I've added a link to the thread below.

http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 58&t=37392
Thanks!
I've sent you an application.

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