Tools for creatures contact

[BoldRune]

For first sry if wrong section, wasnt sure where put this.

What tools for demons/angels/other creatures do u recommend? Mby not quija i heard it's bad idea.
In theory for contact demons from books like goetia u should se them in ur mind or in clouds of smoke. But in "mordern magick" craig recommends a black/odsidian mirror. I feel like made this might a bit hard for me so whats might be better divination ball (xD, sorry i am not sure how name this in english )

or just a normal crystal (like mountain crystal???). Or u have other suggestions?

[CCoburn]

The Ten Holy Sephiroth, Crowleys 777, meditation.

[Sypheara]

There are several tools depending on school.

There are a few basics however that might serve you well.

-A black handled dagger of some sort. This is often refered to as 'Athame' by many but it has historical precedents long before that. This is used to cast circles, invoke and even command spirits at blade point when absolutely necessary.

- A sword of some description, can be seen as a more martial aspect of the above and is used in some more advanced works.

- A wand of some description, can be used in many ways like the dagger but its better for channeling certain forces and in some later works the dagger will be inadequate.

- A chalice of some description - for offerings, blood works to collect blood, can be used to scry in for manifestations of spirits.

- Incense burner of some description, for burning incense. One that works with coals and incense you use yourself is better but anything is better than nothing.

- A scrying orb or orbs. In my tradition they are the eyes of gods, one is made of purest obsidian you can financially obtain, other is of quartz.

- A black mirror - obsidian if possible, but otherwise simply glass with a black card insert can do in a pinch but itll be much more fickle and less powerful. Fufils many aspects that the orbs do also but is good for creating a mirror gate when you get onto advanced works.

- Amulet or talisman of some description to boost your own powers and provide protection. Broad range of what can work here.

- Cards of some description - Tarot works well, but so do other oracle decks and even a 'normal' pack of modern playing cards will suffice.

Ive probably missed something off here.. there are others like the cord to draw circle etc but thats getting very specific. All of the above have specific uses and you should look into older magickal grimoires for other tools etc that can be made. Ive found that the only mandatory ones to have are a blade of some description, amulet or talisman for protection, and one divinatory tool you are really good with in a pinch.

Rest are thigns you SHOULD get but can do without in a pinch. All should be consecrated to purpose and used for that purpose only.

This is a very rushed list, ill post more if you have more questions and i have time. Just seems this thread has been a bit neglected thus far.

*Addendum* Salt for reinforcing a circle or triangle and cleaning equipment also doesnt go amiss. I tend not to keep it on the altar or other working surface though due to its strong banishing effects.

[Napoli]

For first sry if wrong section, wasnt sure where put this.

What tools for demons/angels/other creatures do u recommend? Mby not quija i heard it's bad idea.
In theory for contact demons from books like goetia u should se them in ur mind or in clouds of smoke. But in "mordern magick" craig recommends a black/odsidian mirror. I feel like made this might a bit hard for me so whats might be better divination ball (xD, sorry i am not sure how name this in english )

or just a normal crystal (like mountain crystal???). Or u have other suggestions?

As much as I remember Kraig had asked to use people with divinatory or mediumship abilities, if the practitioner had not obtained such skills yet. Otherwise they can use a black mirror. Check the book for detailed instructions on making it. If I remember correctly a black mirror is a see through glass that is painted black on one side instead of the usual brown, that is used to make normal mirrors. But follow the book's instructions as they are more precise about the requirements.

[RaineAshford]

My advice is don't summon Daemons.

Daemons are masters of illusion, but scoundrels. They'll test their ability to give hallucinations on you, they don't care for Human health or sanity.

I'd avoid Demons too, they make you deny your own perception and sometimes turn people into demons with pain and torment.


Fairy summonings are good. Angel summonings are good. Sometimes Ghosts too, depending on if they lived a pure life and had no potential for corruption after death.

[RoseRed]

We've had very different experiences with daemons. But, I do agree, it's definitely not a great idea for a beginner.

Fairies. I've never heard of it being safe to deal with fairies. Most people are terrified of them for good reason.

[Napoli]

We've had very different experiences with daemons. But, I do agree, it's definitely not a great idea for a beginner.

Fairies. I've never heard of it being safe to deal with fairies. Most people are terrified of them for good reason.

I think fairies are safer in the sense that a beginner can find a fairy's energy much easier to handle. They are less powerful than demons and require less energy from us. Demonic and angelic energies are more overwhelming. Demons feed on chaotic emotions while fairies feed on positive feelings. And someone here mentioned that Abrahamic angels draw their energies directly from their creator.

[RoseRed]

Have you ever read the lore or mythology on fairies? I'd rather deal with a daemon anyday. A little more research could be helpful. Do go thinking fairies are all nice and sweet.

[Napoli]

Have you ever read the lore or mythology on fairies? I'd rather deal with a daemon anyday. A little more research could be helpful. Do go thinking fairies are all nice and sweet.

I am not saying fairies are all nice and sweet. You can have your backside kicked if you rub them up the wrong way just like with any other beings. But you can read my post again as to why I think they are better options than demons. I have worked with both and I find demonic energy rather overwhelming. I have begun my occult practice by starting to work with Rosier and I have had bad days because I had no one to guide me on how to handle demonic energies. But I will choose him over any other entity any day because that is how strong our bonding is. My advice has been more geared towards the beginners. Even newbie spirit keepers are not encouraged to keep demons and angels.

[RoseRed]

I don't need to read your post again. I didn't say demon - I said daemon. Different classes of entities.

When the people that wrote and lived the lore flattered and offered out of fear...

Even newbie spirit keepers are not encouraged to keep demons and angels.

Can you clarify this, please.

[Napoli]

I don't need to read your post again. I didn't say demon - I said daemon. Different classes of entities.

When the people that wrote and lived the lore flattered and offered out of fear...

Even newbie spirit keepers are not encouraged to keep demons and angels.

Can you clarify this, please.

By the word 'demon' I have meant daemons. It is an alternate spelling which I prefer to use.

Spirit keepers are those who purchases spirit bindings- vessels that acts a portal to a particular spirit, usually created with lots of safety mechanisms. Usually, a beginner is suggested to start with entities that does not have high energies like fairies, dragons, etc. It is not because they are not malicious but because their energies are not as strong as that say of an angel. I am rather sensitive to energies and I find myself more exhausted when working with Rosier than with the fairy. But I consider both as my friends. Don't confuse my word 'energy' with nature or actions.

Many demons tend to feed on chaotic emotions. If you are not careful and choose wrongly they will make you experience those emotions in order to feed off them.

Demons can include beings that can what others may call malevolent entities. Just like there are different types of fairies, angels, deities, etc. out there, so are various demons. If you do your research you will find that some demons are indeed destructive. But including say Unsere among them is totally wrong.

I don't go working with entities by looking at what type they are or whether they have white or dark energies. I prefer to do my research on their nature and how they resonate with me. But everyone has their own experience and opinions and I am not here to nullify them. You and I both work with demons. I may have a good relationship with a particular demon and you may find no connection with him at all.

[RaineAshford]

I don't need to read your post again. I didn't say demon - I said daemon. Different classes of entities.

When the people that wrote and lived the lore flattered and offered out of fear...

Even newbie spirit keepers are not encouraged to keep demons and angels.

Can you clarify this, please.

By the word 'demon' I have meant daemons. It is an alternate spelling which I prefer to use.

Spirit keepers are those who purchases spirit bindings- vessels that acts a portal to a particular spirit, usually created with lots of safety mechanisms. Usually, a beginner is suggested to start with entities that does not have high energies like fairies, dragons, etc. It is not because they are not malicious but because their energies are not as strong as that say of an angel. I am rather sensitive to energies and I find myself more exhausted when working with Rosier than with the fairy. But I consider both as my friends. Don't confuse my word 'energy' with nature or actions.

Many demons tend to feed on chaotic emotions. If you are not careful and choose wrongly they will make you experience those emotions in order to feed off them.

Demons can include beings that can what others may call malevolent entities. Just like there are different types of fairies, angels, deities, etc. out there, so are various demons. If you do your research you will find that some demons are indeed destructive. But including say Unsere among them is totally wrong.

I don't go working with entities by looking at what type they are or whether they have white or dark energies. I prefer to do my research on their nature and how they resonate with me. But everyone has their own experience and opinions and I am not here to nullify them. You and I both work with demons. I may have a good relationship with a particular demon and you may find no connection with him at all.

Actually not alternative spellings. Daemons and Demons are two different types of entities. Consider Daemons as slender and red, and Demons as bulky and red.

[RoseRed]

I do? According to whose definition?

Right, cuz upg and personal experience trumps lore and mythology.

Where are you getting your info on spirit keeping? Dragon spirits for beginners? That's either make believe or lunacy.

[Napoli]

I do? According to whose definition?

Right, cuz upg and personal experience trumps lore and mythology.

Where are you getting your info on spirit keeping? Dragon spirits for beginners? That's either make believe or lunacy.

I meant that you have mentioned somewhere that you had good experiences with a certain demon. I never meant that you work with demons on a regular basis.

I have contacted 'Creepy Hollows' for their advice and they recommended it. But I didn't buy anything from them yet.

If you don't believe in my experience then it's OK. I am not forcing you to believe it. We all have a right to share our experiences and and express our opinions. Your UPG differs from mine but I am not bothered about it at all. There are plenty of people out there who are skittish about demons or daemons whatever you call them. But I have had nothing but great experiences from them. And the same goes for the fairy I worked with. Just because I have said that I have good experiences from her does not invalidate your experiences in any way either. Working with supernatural beings are just like working with humans. Some may like you and some may not. Even your close friend can betray you. Lores and mythologies does hold some validities, but I don't use it as my only source of decision for these matters. Can we please stop the debate here.

[RoseRed]

ah, that makes sense. Creepy Hollows should be avoided like the plague - or JoS. They're not spirit keepers - they're frauds and enslavers.

I'm not debating - I'm discussing and asking questions and sharing my own thoughts on the topic.

I meant that you have mentioned somewhere that you had good experiences with a certain demon. I never meant that you work with demons on a regular basis.
Please let me know if you find that post again. I think there may be a misunderstanding here.

I have contacted 'Creepy Hollows' for their advice and they recommended it. But I didn't buy anything from them yet.
See my comment above. I can't wait for the others to chime in with there opinion here. Or you could use the search bar and research the many conversations that have been had regarding CH.

If you don't believe in my experience then it's OK. I am not forcing you to believe it. We all have a right to share our experiences and and express our opinions.
I never said I didn't believe you. What I do believe is that you're experience is not the norm when working with those actual energies. Some people (and you very well may be one of them) are naturally inclined towards it and for those people - they have great experiences. It's more the exception than the rule.

Your UPG differs from mine but I am not bothered about it at all.
Why would you be? Except - I'm not speaking only from UPG.

There are plenty of people out there who are skittish about demons or daemons whatever you call them.
Again, demons are not daemons. They are different classes of entities. I hope you're not imply that either demons or daemons make me skittish. [lol] I'm a Priestess of Hekate. Her whims and whimsy make demon encounters seem like a day at Chucky Cheese when She's teaching you Lessons.

If you want to work with the darker entities - you really should much more about them. Education is always a good thing. Knowledge itself isn't Power but it give you the opportunity to turn it into Power.

But I have had nothing but great experiences from them. And the same goes for the fairy I worked with.
It doesn't read that you know what it is that you're working with. I can only go by what you write.

Do you know what kind of Fae it was? They've been well cataloged. There are many beings and entities that fall under the heading Fairy. They ain't all like Tinkerbell.

Just because I have said that I have good experiences from her does not invalidate your experiences in any way either.
Yeah, no shit. I can't believe you even felt the need to say that. Whether you believe in what I choose to share doesn't invalidate anything. The approval and belief of others is not something I require.

Working with supernatural beings are just like working with humans.
No, it's not.

Some may like you and some may not. Even your close friend can betray you.
Whether they like me or not is utterly irrelevant.

Lores and mythologies does hold some validities, but I don't use it as my only source of decision for these matters.
Again, I hope you're not implying that I do. I think that dismissing the lore and mythology so easily can lead to catastrophic consequences. But, people do what they want. It's how we live and learn.

Can we please stop the debate here.
I wasn't debating, I was conversing. Sorry you couldn't tell the difference.

[Napoli]

ah, that makes sense. Creepy Hollows should be avoided like the plague - or JoS. They're not spirit keepers - they're frauds and enslavers.

I'm not debating - I'm discussing and asking questions and sharing my own thoughts on the topic.

I meant that you have mentioned somewhere that you had good experiences with a certain demon. I never meant that you work with demons on a regular basis.
Please let me know if you find that post again. I think there may be a misunderstanding here.

I have contacted 'Creepy Hollows' for their advice and they recommended it. But I didn't buy anything from them yet.
See my comment above. I can't wait for the others to chime in with there opinion here. Or you could use the search bar and research the many conversations that have been had regarding CH.

If you don't believe in my experience then it's OK. I am not forcing you to believe it. We all have a right to share our experiences and and express our opinions.
I never said I didn't believe you. What I do believe is that you're experience is not the norm when working with those actual energies. Some people (and you very well may be one of them) are naturally inclined towards it and for those people - they have great experiences. It's more the exception than the rule.

Your UPG differs from mine but I am not bothered about it at all.
Why would you be? Except - I'm not speaking only from UPG.

There are plenty of people out there who are skittish about demons or daemons whatever you call them.
Again, demons are not daemons. They are different classes of entities. I hope you're not imply that either demons or daemons make me skittish. [lol] I'm a Priestess of Hekate. Her whims and whimsy make demon encounters seem like a day at Chucky Cheese when She's teaching you Lessons.

If you want to work with the darker entities - you really should much more about them. Education is always a good thing. Knowledge itself isn't Power but it give you the opportunity to turn it into Power.

But I have had nothing but great experiences from them. And the same goes for the fairy I worked with.
It doesn't read that you know what it is that you're working with. I can only go by what you write.

Do you know what kind of Fae it was? They've been well cataloged. There are many beings and entities that fall under the heading Fairy. They ain't all like Tinkerbell.

Just because I have said that I have good experiences from her does not invalidate your experiences in any way either.
Yeah, no shit. I can't believe you even felt the need to say that. Whether you believe in what I choose to share doesn't invalidate anything. The approval and belief of others is not something I require.

Working with supernatural beings are just like working with humans.
No, it's not.

Some may like you and some may not. Even your close friend can betray you.
Whether they like me or not is utterly irrelevant.

Lores and mythologies does hold some validities, but I don't use it as my only source of decision for these matters.
Again, I hope you're not implying that I do. I think that dismissing the lore and mythology so easily can lead to catastrophic consequences. But, people do what they want. It's how we live and learn.

Can we please stop the debate here.
I wasn't debating, I was conversing. Sorry you couldn't tell the difference.

I apologise for misunderstanding you. I am sorry I am not good at quoting individual parts of a post so I am going to go at one shot. First of all the spelling 'demon' is even used in 'The Complete Book of Demonolatry' by S Connolly, instead of daemons. Even many Demonolators I know use it. The word itself is derived from the latter. The book is sort of like a Bible for the beginners in this path. Demonolatry pantheons also include deities like Kali, Hekate, Isis, Hades, etc. It's rather a mixture of all the dark entities out there- deities, angels, djinns, etc.

The fairy I worked with was send to me by a friend of mine who practises Celtic magic and more. To be more specific she was a fae. I have worked with Rosier and her at the same time and they both seemed to like each other. My friend told me that this is because they are both beings of love. I don't know why I had such good luck with them. I do feel a strong call for the path of Demonolatry for sure. And I am also fond of fairies, or any other spiritual beings for the matter. I know there is always a risk in working with any entity. But I do my research. I worked with that fae by giving her offerings, talking to her and even sang to her. Anyway, then I decided to cut off my ties with my friend and felt it rather inappropriate to call her again. She was send to me for a particular work and that was another reason I stopped invoking her. This I did in order to show her that I have given her release from the task. Anyway, one day I was doing my usual ritual with Rosier and I suddenly found a piece of wax near me. This had belonged to the candle I had once burnt for the fae and threw away. I was rather confused and for some reason I took it and broke it into three pieces. Thinking that she may be around I told her that I don't need her help. After I was done I stored those wax pieces in a jar. The next day I found one of the pieces missing from it. I took it as a sign that she got my message.

When I had said that working with spiritual entities are like working with human beings, I had meant that it is to a certain extent. You have said that some people are inclined towards working with certain beings and that was what I was suggesting. I am sure that if I go outside to a foreign country I won't feel so connected with the people there like my own. This is what I have meant. I am sorry I am not good at expressing myself well. And as for you working with a demon I guess I did mix up. I am sorry. I tend to be rather forgetful many times [blush].

[RoseRed]

Please stop apologizing. You haven't done anything to apologize for. That's what's commonly called a Niche Specialty in Trad Circles.

I don't have time to reply properly to your post right now but I will come back to it - most likely tomorrow.

[RoseRed]

I have no idea what a Rosier is.

I am curious as to which Demonology circles you run with.

Just to clarify, you were sent a fae, bound in an object, to be used for a certain task. You didn't release her when the task was completed but later after a falling out with the person that shipped the fairy through the mail. When a being of love, that you used in a working, returned to you, you told it I don't need you go away.

Oh, yeah, I would take that as a sign.

[Napoli]

I have no idea what a Rosier is.

I am curious as to which Demonology circles you run with.

Just to clarify, you were sent a fae, bound in an object, to be used for a certain task. You didn't release her when the task was completed but later after a falling out with the person that shipped the fairy through the mail. When a being of love, that you used in a working, returned to you, you told it I don't need you go away.

Oh, yeah, I would take that as a sign.

I am a Demonolator, not a Demonologist. They are two separate paths. Rosier is the name of a fallen angel and is a demon of love. The fae sprite works with my friend just like Rosier works with me. My friend gave me her name and instructed me that if I ever needed her I just have to call her. He also added that I could give her offerings if I wanted to and told me what she likes.

One day I decided to call the fae and Rosier at the same time to join me. First I lit Rosier's candle and invited him over. Then I took the fae's candle and brought it near Rosier's to light it. Then to my surprise the flame of his candle automatically bend towards hers! Whenever I light candles for ritual I ensure that there is no drought in the room. Later, when I mentioned this incident to my friend he told me that this had happened because they were both of beings of love and they liked each other [happy2] .

[RoseRed]

I am a Demonolator, not a Demonologist. They are two separate paths.

OK, what's the difference?

[Napoli]

I am a Demonolator, not a Demonologist. They are two separate paths.

OK, what's the difference?

Demonolatry is both a magical path and a religion. It involves veneration of dark spiritual beings be they fallen angels, demons and deities. I rather find it similar to Wicca except it is not a path of light. Even though I don't practise Demonolatry as my religion I chose it for my occult pathworking because I find this tradition powerful. There are nine demonic divinities-

Satan- The All
Unsere- Life
Eurynomous- Death
Verrine- Positive polarity
Amducious- Negative polarity
Lucifer- Air
Flereous- Fire
Leviathan- Water
Belial- Earth

Please note that the above beings have other powers too in this tradition, but as the nine divinities they represent the above aspects. There are rites of birth, death, etc. in Demonolatry presided over by a particular demon. For example the rites of marriage is conducted in the name of Rosier.

For more information you can visit demonolatry.org and maybe try out some of its books for further reading, if you are interested.

[RoseRed]

I appreciate the info. Thanx.

[Napoli]

I appreciate the info. Thanx.

You are welcome.

[Sypheara]

Just want to chime in here, being british ill first apologise for cutting across the conversation.

I honestly think CreepyHollows have got to be after JOS probably one of the the worst examples of an Occult site. They look like frauds to me, bluntly, or people who have very amateur skills.

Even if they were offering the service they purport to me, the fact they basically tie spirits into objects for sale is basically the lowest of the low, so they lose on all fronts.

That is not meant to be critical of you Napoli I just think very strongly about that site since I came across it.

The only other thing I can really comment on are Dragons. Behemoth is seen as aa very powerful earth dragon and serpent in my tradition, who dwarves the majority of goetic demons being one of Belials primary servants. He is insanely powerful and cannot be bound into an object in his entirity, linked yes, bound no.

As such I cannot agree with the fact demons are necessarily harder to handle than dragon and serpentine spirits who are usually extremely ancient and operate under their own code and law that can be difficult to approach.

That said I have little practical knowledge with working the Fae, unless you would count certain genuis loci as being of the fae.

Id be interested in how you deal with spirit houses in general however (upkeep etc) beyond what has been posted.

[Napoli]

Just want to chime in here, being british ill first apologise for cutting across the conversation.

I honestly think CreepyHollows have got to be after JOS probably one of the the worst examples of an Occult site. They look like frauds to me, bluntly, or people who have very amateur skills.

Even if they were offering the service they purport to me, the fact they basically tie spirits into objects for sale is basically the lowest of the low, so they lose on all fronts.

That is not meant to be critical of you Napoli I just think very strongly about that site since I came across it.

The only other thing I can really comment on are Dragons. Behemoth is seen as aa very powerful earth dragon and serpent in my tradition, who dwarves the majority of goetic demons being one of Belials primary servants. He is insanely powerful and cannot be bound into an object in his entirity, linked yes, bound no.

As such I cannot agree with the fact demons are necessarily harder to handle than dragon and serpentine spirits who are usually extremely ancient and operate under their own code and law that can be difficult to approach.

That said I have little practical knowledge with working the Fae, unless you would count certain genuis loci as being of the fae.

Id be interested in how you deal with spirit houses in general however (upkeep etc) beyond what has been posted.

I haven't purchased any spirit from them yet. That is because I find their cheap options dubious. They offer vessels which acts as portals for deities like Zeus for $25, when they are not on sale of course!

Actually, I had no idea about dragons. And after reading your post I am rather shocked that they gave me such advice. Currently, I don't keep any spirits. Rosier responds to my summoning whenever he wishes to. Alternatively, he visits me whenever he feels the need to do so.