why is Qabalah so important to magick

[Napoli]

I'm thinking also that the energy that existed prior to The primordial point, and into the first few stages of the TOL, being on a Quantum level, there would exist uncertainty(chaos). Kether would be the microcosm, and at the time of the Big Bang, the Microcosm becomes the Macrocosm.

The only problem I have in agreeing that the Ain veils make up the chaos is that many traditions around the world believe that there were entities in existence in chaos. The Sumerian Tiamat is an example. Ain itself is a veil of negative existence. Chaos is supposed to be dark and Ain Soph Aur is certainly not dark.

I have not studied the ToL in details though. I do know that Kabbalah says that Da'ath sort of fell from its position and became an abyss. If Da'ath existed at the same time or before Kether had manifested then it is probably the chaos.

[CCoburn]

The only problem I have in agreeing that the Ain veils make up the chaos is that many traditions around the world believe that there were entities in existence in chaos. The Sumerian Tiamat is an example. Ain itself is a veil of negative existence. Chaos is supposed to be dark and Ain Soph Aur is certainly not dark.

I have not studied the ToL in details though. I do know that Kabbalah says that Da'ath sort of fell from its position and became an abyss. If Da'ath existed at the same time or before Kether had manifested then it is probably the chaos.

It makes sense to me that Entities came from chaos, and order came from Entities. This is part of the problem in transcending Entities(Gods), reason fails, as all is chaos. The Veils, so to speak.

I don't think that "Aur" refers to the visible part of the EM spectrum, AKA light. It may not even refer to Electromagnetic energy at all, but just energy. Which is to say, it could very well be dark.

Yes, the Abyss was created when the Supernal Triad was separated from the rest of the Sephiroth. This actually should have been mentioned already, glad you brought it up. [thumbup]

Cheers

[Desecrated]

Knowledge is not always in written form. Actually for africans knowledge MUST be pass down oraly through legends, stories and songs, and the practical knowledge through actual DOING and WATCHING. Knowlegde came up and in the Middle East they developed and "systematized" that knowledge, allowing the study and re study. And allowing us to grab it without being inititated, because that knowledge WAS for initiates.

There are just no evidence for that.
The Noble savage theory just don't hold up.

Western Mystery Schools agree with that JUST at some point. It's not MY opinion, just what is passed down through tradition, just as D. Katz does with his. "When Moses received kabbalah on top of mount Sinai, he was in fact restoring the original biblical religion, that of Noah, Now purged of Egyptian superstition." Mr. Katz sounds very "priestly" in those afirmations. Moses was adopted as a prince. Royalty studied the mysteries and were trained to be priests. The Faraoh was the High Priest and "god incarnated". So, Moses had all the time to take the knowledge from Egypt and then "recieve" it in Mount Sinai.

Well, in reality, Moses was a fictional character, but I used it as an example of Jewish thinking being different from Egyptian thinking. Especially considering the fact that there are no archaeological evidence that the jews were used as slaves and the communication between the Hebrews and the Egyptians didn't occur until hundreds of years later.

Please, stop doing it, I already asked you that.
And NO. I don't hink you should think like me or anyone else. It's NOT freemasons who "started" talking about egyptian origins of the Mystery Schools. And as I said in a post above that you seem to have skiped:

I never said that they started it, I just used them as an example.

[WillowDarkWytch]

Knowledge is not always in written form. Actually for africans knowledge MUST be pass down oraly through legends, stories and songs, and the practical knowledge through actual DOING and WATCHING. Knowlegde came up and in the Middle East they developed and "systematized" that knowledge, allowing the study and re study. And allowing us to grab it without being inititated, because that knowledge WAS for initiates.

There are just no evidence for that.
The Noble savage theory just don't hold up.

Western Mystery Schools agree with that JUST at some point. It's not MY opinion, just what is passed down through tradition, just as D. Katz does with his. "When Moses received kabbalah on top of mount Sinai, he was in fact restoring the original biblical religion, that of Noah, Now purged of Egyptian superstition." Mr. Katz sounds very "priestly" in those afirmations. Moses was adopted as a prince. Royalty studied the mysteries and were trained to be priests. The Faraoh was the High Priest and "god incarnated". So, Moses had all the time to take the knowledge from Egypt and then "recieve" it in Mount Sinai.

Well, in reality, Moses was a fictional character, but I used it as an example of Jewish thinking being different from Egyptian thinking. Especially considering the fact that there are no archaeological evidence that the jews were used as slaves and the communication between the Hebrews and the Egyptians didn't occur until hundreds of years later.

Please, stop doing it, I already asked you that.
And NO. I don't hink you should think like me or anyone else. It's NOT freemasons who "started" talking about egyptian origins of the Mystery Schools. And as I said in a post above that you seem to have skiped:

I never said that they started it, I just used them as an example.

Ok.

Now, let's keep ourselves in the thread subject, we are deviating from the initial post.

[Hadit]

There really aren't too many Egyptian ideas in the western esoteric tradition. Most of the ideas come from Coptic texts or Gnostic ideology, neither of which really represent Egyptian ideology.

[Daremo]

I find it curious that pre universe or primordial is considered chaos as chaos implies motion and life/existance is motion. What about the possibility that primordial existance was strict conformity?

I have found that crowleys statement that the tree of life is a filing cabinet and we can choose to file things anyway we want to be most useful. As such it is a scientific method of categorizing the universe we experiencenthe only way we humans know how, by comparison. It is extremely adaptable as illistrated through 777 and i propose that its description of being universal is due to the fact that it is adaptable, vague, and easily personalized. Regardless of what it was or how it came to be the real question is what can we use it for. We use it to understand the forces at interplay in our perception and that is always valueble. It is unique and at the same time just like every other system developed to understand the universe.