Is magick different from energy using or the same?

[NinjaRoot]

so , there is energy - where you can manifest you will through energy,

then there are spells and rituals, where you could do basicly the same but with a diferent method, yet spells or magick are considered supposedly more powerfull due to the complexity of spells and rituals to achieve the goal, because every time you complete a step of a the ritual more you believe, yet in energy cultivation and manipulation your mind has a lot of doubts so therefore cant achieve a higher power because society has blocked us through it, while in magick al steps of ritual and sigil creating is just to distract the mind and to create more belief...

So my question is , are they diferrent things or the same, magick and energy use? i believe our mind and will are the true reality shappers... i believe our mind and thoughs if controlled and well used can achieve miracles...so should i experiment energy , or experiment magick?

PS:Is it necessary to have servitors, protective entities or pacts with entities to achieve the same power as many magicians who have made pacts with entities? or can we achieve it just by understanding the knowledge and training your mind to do it through practical exercices?

[WillowDarkWytch]

Motumbá Àse

Basically, the same.

And as you say, there are different methods...

There is a difference in working with spirits or projecting your own energy and make it manifest, yes, but deep down, everything is energy use/manipulation.

Is it necessary to have servitors, protective entities or pacts with entities to achieve the same power as many magicians who have made pacts with entities? or can we achieve it just by understanding the knowledge and training your mind to do it through practical exercices?

You need to read Initiation Into Hermetics Here in the forum it's a very recommended book and it's kind of funny that we ressolve everything but telling people to readit xDDD It's kind of a internal joke in the forum, BUT I mean it! I do recommend the book. It'll answer A LOT to your question.

Saravá
Idansinají

[NinjaRoot]

thanks for quick reply , i will take a look on it , i had a experience a few weeks ago, i was comming back from school in my car, and i remembered a crystal's store, that a friend of mine had talked me about it, and i instantly had the intention to go there, my suprise, when i got there , the man from the shop, telled me , ""you do not need crystal's , what you need is to clear your mind , many questions wondering around", and he invited me to a "Pretos Velhos" Ritual, to summon , old african protective entities, a week after that... and we were talking and i told him all i learned was from books , and he told me , "books wont teach you anything this will"{mentioning the group work and practical work,instead of learning multiple beliefs} but that whole ritual similiar to church gnosis inductions, songs and all that joy, the ritual was pretty wicked, he clean, we worshipped, and then the real deal, entities entered some volantaries body , and ones were healers, another were the knowledge guys, but being the people from there impersonating a entitie didnt realy maked me believe,this was my first ritual , im new to this, actually kind of lost, because there are many areas and methods to achieve the true power...thats why i was looking for quick practical exercices to make my mind believe that it is real , i know it is, but i cant prove it to my mind, thats my great barrier, so i need some quick results exercices to do so i can destroy my barriers and let energy flow... please help

[WillowDarkWytch]

Ninjaroot, where are you from???

Let me explain you something. Pretos Velhos are spirits of the old black slaves of Brazil. They're spirits that comongly come through the ritual of Umbanda or similar rites as Catimbo or such. These spirits are from "A Dereita" (The Right hand/path) and they come to bring light, healing, wisdom and give us, their mediums, and the people that come looking for them, their own qualities that are strength, resistance, perseverance, patience, etc. Though they are very powerful in their "Demanda" (magico-spiritual fight power; spiritual abilitiy of "counterspell") they do not bring nor give any "powers" to their mediums. They teach us, guid us, defend us. But their power is their power, and ours it's ours.

If you're looking to gain magical abilities, I must tell you that the best way is through magical training. There are some rituals (not in Umbanda, Quimbanda nor Catimbo, Jurema, etc) that might give YOU some powers and abilities, but they come through initiations into the cults. So, that path you're coming across is not to gain magical powers, is to spirtually grow. Then, maybe you'll develop spiritual powers such as awareness, higher counsciousness, better mediumship through working with this spirits, but not "powers".

Umbanda comes from the bantu, actually kimbundo, word Mbanda, that means "art of healing", "healing ritual" or for some simply "magic", BUT it's magic in a sense of spiritual connection to the spiritual world, not as in magic for the common usage. Also it doesn't have anything to do with gnosticism. Of course, every spiritual path "touches" between each other at some point because there's a "spiritual truth" that all paths come to. That's why some paths are similar (aside from sincretism and the possible doctrine exchange).

Magic and Healing, as I see it, they come very close if not together. Crystals are means which through them you channel your magics, they aren't "magical" by themselves. The do have spiritual and energetic qualities, but it's trhough your own power that you may direct those energies.

Working with Pretos Velhos (Old Black men and women) it's a beautiful thing. Don't taint it. Don't deviate it.

You will believe through your own experiences, there is no spell or such that will remove doubt from your head, only conquering yourself will. Only "awakening" to the spiritual will. And that's something very personal.

If you want to believe in Pretos Velhos manifesting through people, you just wait until they say or do something, they will amaze you. Of course that will happen if those mediums are real and not "playing to be" or pretending to be Pretos Velhos.

If "magick" is what you're looking for, Pretos Velhos won't give it to you and you'll end up desapointed.

To develop your own abilities, try Initiation Into Hermetics. And read a lot more, there are things that books can't give you, I'm sure of that, but advising someone NOT to read, is something I'll never do, and a Preto Velho, even if they didn't know how to read they surele won't disagree with something that might feed human mind.

Saravá
Idansinají

[NinjaRoot]

Im from Portugal, when i say power i refer to our inner energy, its just easier to say, and i was not summoning pretos velhos because i wanted power lol, i went to the shop and the guy just invited me to it, it was a method test, to see other methods, and i went, what i was saying is that in that ritual i couldn't be sure if the entities were really there or if the people there were just impersonating them, my english is bad sorry for the misunderstanding ...

[Hadit]

"Energy work" is one of many new age interpretations of how magic works. But magic is much more simple than modern "occultists" make it out to be. Magic is the ability to question, manipulate, and go against the deterministic flow of mechanistic nature. "Energy work" tries to describe this process as the manipulations of some mystical energy that exists around us. It is an older attempt to mystify scientific claims, such as all things being "made of energy". It is comparable to modern day quantum mysticism.

[Desecrated]

"Energy work" is one of many new age interpretations of how magic works. But magic is much more simple than modern "occultists" make it out to be. Magic is the ability to question, manipulate, and go against the deterministic flow of mechanistic nature. "Energy work" tries to describe this process as the manipulations of some mystical energy that exists around us. It is an older attempt to mystify scientific claims, such as all things being "made of energy". It is comparable to modern day quantum mysticism.

That is a very western point of view.

[Hadit]

"Energy work" is one of many new age interpretations of how magic works. But magic is much more simple than modern "occultists" make it out to be. Magic is the ability to question, manipulate, and go against the deterministic flow of mechanistic nature. "Energy work" tries to describe this process as the manipulations of some mystical energy that exists around us. It is an older attempt to mystify scientific claims, such as all things being "made of energy". It is comparable to modern day quantum mysticism.

That is a very western point of view.

I agree with the western point of view. The biggest divider is the nature of the Self, and the west got it right.

[Mage]

So my question is , are they diferrent things or the same, magick and energy use? i believe our mind and will are the true reality shappers... i believe our mind and thoughs if controlled and well used can achieve miracles...so should i experiment energy , or experiment magick?

Magick is the ability of the human consciousness to change reality. But in order to gain this ability, it should have enough energy. Faith is also important for working with magick - however, whatever faith a person has, if he doesn't have enough energy in his consciousness, all his rituals and magick actions will not work. This is why the skills of working with energy (basically, the skills of managing your own body energy and the skills of energizing your consciousness) belong to the basics which every mage acquires at the beginning of training.

[Mage]

PS:Is it necessary to have servitors, protective entities or pacts with entities to achieve the same power as many magicians who have made pacts with entities? or can we achieve it just by understanding the knowledge and training your mind to do it through practical exercices?

In Voodoo and Shamanism the Mages' Power depends on how many spirits he is controlling. The more spirits a Mage controls, the more power he has and the more tasks he can cope with at the same time.

In Planetary Magick the Mage's Power depends only on his level of consciousness development. The higher developed the consciousness is, the more high-frequency energy torrents are available to it, the stronger are his reality-altering spells.

In the Runic tradition, the bioenergetic parameter of the body is very important. The more energy a Mage can conduct through his body, the bigger is the strength of the Runes which he creates.

Thus, working with entities of the subtle planes is not necessary for all Mages.