Suggestions derived from magick exp. with humans as object

[LoneWolf]

My first experiences with magick planted the seed of confusion that started it all quite some time ago. This unknowing is still in my mind and is without a doubt the big enigma of my current life.

Instant manifestation of a situation where another human was involved. I will now relate my first notable and by far the strongest experience.

I was in a very good state of mind. I just swam in an almost empty pool. Late night. Alone in the showers. I felt the water flowing through my body and falling on top of my head. I was in a joyous and peaceful state.

I didn’t know much about any of it, but my energies were flowing through my body. I felt something I had never experienced.

After getting dressed I left the pool and went home walking through a big park. Big dark trees and orange-ish lamps helped only to sustain and amplify such harmonious feeling. I stopped and touched the trees as if I was becoming one with my surroundings. By the time I was half way into the park I decided my intent and that it would be fulfilled. I wanted to have sex with a woman. I initiated a talk with my spirit which by that time I already felt and conversed sporadically with. I was asked questions and given instructions as:

“Why?” (Not sure why it was needed, maybe remove rational blockages)
“Picture it”
“How would it feel? Visualize energy coming out of your head. Just like you just felt in the shower but the other way around” (more or less, long ago)
Etc.

… in order to create the necessary energetic and emotional responses in order to create the situation I was becoming.

Finally, the “let go” part. Which lasted for less than a minute. I just forgot all about it and in such ecstasyous frame of mind contemplated the trees and the city.

I heard “there she is, left”. “Don’t look yet”. I kept walking straight with the absolute knowing that to my left there she was. But nope. So I kept walking. Less than 15 meters away I find a young woman with jogging clothes standing in the door of her home. Looking at me directly in the eyes. Very straight. Almost in a violent manner. I looked at her and she insinuated to me in the strongest possible manner yet without saying a thing and almost no moving. Only her eyes and the feelings. I almost walk past (I am not big ladies-man) but she placed her hand between her legs almost rubbing (yes, what the fuck?) and kept looking at me in an expectant manner. I followed her. Almost no word was exchanged. I will spare details. It did happen.

And no, I am not ugly but definitely not a model. Also my social skills are almost such of autism spectrum.

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This was the start of my big question. If this can be done, What are other people? I think it can be enriching for all of us to share our ideas and paradigms that would fit into such experience.

I have few of them.

“All you can picture is in the ALL. It exists; for if it weren’t in the ALL, the ALL wouldn’t be the ALL”.

So basically I chose to experience something that already exists in the framework of existence, and “leapt” towards that reality. This idea begs for something resembling multiverse theory. I went to another parallel reality which satisfied my conditions.

-

Only one Universe. Somehow I made a girl go to her door by the time I was walking past and made her want to have sex with me for no apparent reason.

This suggests that somehow we share this place where our collective ideas shape the world. Our reality is the union of the ideas and magical projections of all individuals. So we individually are subject to them. And of course, the course of actions can’t be predicted due to big complexity. (This shits on free will big time)

-

Only I exist. I am God. Existence is a mirror.

Cool.

TL;DR: I manifest a random woman to fuck instantly. If this can be done what are other people? Share your paradigms that fit into such experience.

Feel free to share.

Regards

[chowderpope]

I relate to your experience in the shower and walking in the park, I've had moments where I felt nature and existence put me in a rapture of poetic beauty, where I just felt very "present" and in awe.

The part about the woman is inspiring. It pretty much solidifies the concept of magick itself. Cool beans. Were you able to ride that high energy more? Have you had similar things happen since? I'd like to hear more of your capabilities and experiences.

Do you literally hear an audible voice that you identify as your soul?

[fraterai]

made her want to have sex with me for no apparent reason

my own experiences tell me that you didn't "make her", you let yourself open to your desires and allowed it to manifest by truly following your intuition. A lot of people want to do magic by thinking really hard or within this "make it happen", forceful type mindset, but you didn't really do this, you "allowed" it to happen. Its really different, but is much easier magic to work.

I have also been taught that mutually enjoyable sex is one of the (actually) easiest things to manifest, because spirits use these situations in order to create new things. What these things are exactly I don't know, but they will have physical implications eventually.

What are other people?

Other spirits and souls that are a piece of God, same as you, looking to experience life. She wanted sex. You wanted sex. Either your desire was enough and your attitude open enough to allow "the spirits", "your HGA", "God", or whatever, to manifest this, or the combination of both your desires (more likely) made it work.

Thank you, cool story!

[LoneWolf]

First of all thank you for your kind replies.

Do you literally hear an audible voice that you identify as your soul?

I don't hear any voice. I clear my mind of any thought, blank as a paper, and a thought which feels different than mine arises. I really don't know how to explain it properly. You can think in your mind "One Two Three". And you feel both the information and yourself creating such thought, however, whenever I talk(listen to his answers) to my spirit I don't percieve any intent of mine creating such thought. It just pops out. Rational thoughts that I didn't create get painted into my blank mind.

First you feel the information and then the words come up by themselves. Golden rule is testing it by asking questions you don't know the answer.

Were you able to ride that high energy more? Have you had similar things happen since? I'd like to hear more of your capabilities and experiences.

That day I just went home and gave thanks And yes it has happened more times. Being in a peaceful solitary spot with water preferably puts me in my optimal state of mind. The first one with money was very fulfilling too I get excited just by recalling it. I love life.

made her want to have sex with me for no apparent reason

my own experiences tell me that you didn't "make her", you let yourself open to your desires and allowed it to manifest by truly following your intuition. A lot of people want to do magic by thinking really hard or within this "make it happen", forceful type mindset, but you didn't really do this, you "allowed" it to happen. Its really different, but is much easier magic to work.

Indeed I allowed it to work, however let me say that I am young and pretty hedonist in character (Repression is strong though. Long way till freedom) and I am always on the look. I woudln't miss such sight.

Moreover, I strongly disagree in this whole "allowing" idea that most of the magick community seems to share. Don't get me wrong, I know that magick opens doors and you must cross them, however since there is no limit in your magination adopting the posture of having to look or work for in order to get the object of your "operation" is pretty worthless and counterproductive in my opinion and serves no purpose to have in your mind. There is no limit. Of course cultivating the skills needed in order to become such god might take few lifetimes. Or maybe one second.

For example, you may do some ritual or mental process for money. Therefore your subconscious gets its eyes on it and you see oportunities you had before missed. Yes, true. However as I percieve it, this is like using a bazooka to kill a rat. Effective indeed and you might get your money, however this doesn't mean that you can't exploit and bend such existential process (magicks'forceofnature) to the point of making your money fall literally from heaven or appear in your pocket. If you do it right it will be as you do, I believe.

I honestly think that doing some process to get something and then going and buying it from the store is... you know.

I have also been taught that mutually enjoyable sex is one of the (actually) easiest things to manifest, because spirits use these situations in order to create new things. What these things are exactly I don't know, but they will have physical implications eventually.

I thought this was easier because of the strong desire and energy So spirits use human intercourse to create new "things"?
May you elaborate further or share some source? This really confused me. Very interesting.

My regards

[Nahemah]

TL;DR: I manifest a random woman to fuck instantly. If this can be done what are other people? Share your paradigms that fit into such experience.

I don't think you manifested her, she already existed and no doubt was looking for sex, or interested in it, prior to your happening along her way. Another thought here...

What if she had just called for a prospective partner, what if it was you drawn to her and not the other way around?

How do you know for sure, which way this was manifested, lol. But seriously. Other people: just as powerful as you, potentially and some more so, other people are as real as you. Watch for ego traps.

Perhaps my age is showing, or my sense of personal safety, but I'd not be going into any totsal stranger's house for sex like this, where I live.

[the_spiral]

From my experiences sexual energy is by far one of the easiest forms to manifest, mostly because it's already there! Most people are very open to magickal influence in that particular arena because they're secretly looking for outlets to explore their desires anyway. And the Universe naturally facilitates sex magick because it produces so much wonderful creative and generative power. It sounds like you opened up space for your desires to manifest and they aligned with the desires of someone nearby. Good for you!

(And Nahemah - I had the same thought too and I think it might also be a gendered thing? Because if I was walking alone in a park at night thinking about manifesting a new lover and looked over to see a guy staring at me "in a violent manner" while wanking in his doorway, my reaction might be somewhat less enthusiastic? lol)

[LoneWolf]

[...](And Nahemah - I had the same thought too and I think it might also be a gendered thing? Because if I was walking alone in a park at night thinking about manifesting a new lover and looked over to see a guy staring at me "in a violent manner" while wanking in his doorway, my reaction might be somewhat less enthusiastic? lol)

[lol]

Well if you just spent like 15 minutes trying to manifest it and within a minute of releasing you encounter such thing I think you can be fairly enthusiastic no matter the circumstances.

I must admit that being my first magickal experience I felt a bit weird while walking towards her, yes. The amazement was enough to dismiss it, though.

Regards

[WillowDarkWytch]

Motumbá Àse,

I think Synchronicity. I think that two desires made harmonious contact and lead to manifest that excellent situation for both parts. You both proyected somethin to the Universe, maybe she did it unconsciously and you did it full focused, fully aware... Or maybe you weren't THAT aware and youre being egoic. Maybe you were not conscious at all, because the Universe put you in that state, you just were entuned, you didn't do the job, your "spirit", nature and the Universe did it for you, you just were a good medium for those energies to pass through.

When I read your story I get various possoble "diagnoses" or causes for what happened. No offense but your deduction seems a little bit hurried. I don't say you didnt have anything to do but you may not take all the credit, from what you wrote in your story, you definately had help.

Saravá
Idansinají

[LoneWolf]

Motumbá Àse,

I think Synchronicity. I think that two desires made harmonious contact and lead to manifest that excellent situation for both parts. You both proyected somethin to the Universe, maybe she did it unconsciously and you did it full focused, fully aware... Or maybe you weren't THAT aware and youre being egoic. Maybe you were not conscious at all, because the Universe put you in that state, you just were entuned, you didn't do the job, your "spirit", nature and the Universe did it for you, you just were a good medium for those energies to pass through.

When I read your story I get various possoble "diagnoses" or causes for what happened. No offense but your deduction seems a little bit hurried. I don't say you didnt have anything to do but you may not take all the credit, from what you wrote in your story, you definately had help.

Saravá
Idansinají

Interesting insight. So, you are saying that basically we both attracted ourselves. Like two magnets we were attracted towards each other’s position. Something made me cross the road and keep walking and something made her stand there at the same time. Intuition if you like.

Your insight started my flow of ideas and for that I am grateful; when we do any process we become a receptacle fit for whatever we desired. It will be filled sooner or later, but it will be filled as long as we keep such state of allowance and our surroundings contain such essence the receptacle is fit for.

This however begs for another question; With enough skill and power, theoretically, one could obtain what they seek in an absolute manner and with less or no need for the external world to include what they seek. But, how can the (nearby) external world not contain the object of desire? My paradigm, for effectivity sake, is a mixture between quantum physics and some hermetic teachings. All is in the ALL. All exists. It is therefore logical to deduce that with enough magickal skill the magus could not be a mere receptacle but the water in itself. Shape his surroundings in a way such that it adapts to his will.

In this concrete situation, we may say that if I (for illustration sake) would be a thousand times evolved or a better magician, I would have had not needed a girl who strongly desired sex but one which desired it to a lesser degree. Maybe even one who didn’t desire it at all. Of course, in such situation the individual would raise above free will and transcend this world, however I still evaluate it as suitable for mental analysis and discussion.

From such prism other human beings would not be just mental projections nor illusions, but beings more bound to Law than the magus in our example.

"The half-wise, recognizing the comparative unreality of the Universe, imagine that they may defy its Laws — such are vain and presumptuous fools, and they are broken against the rocks and torn asunder by the elements by reason of their folly. The truly wise, knowing the nature of the Universe, use Law against laws; the higher against the lower; and by the Art of Alchemy transmute that which is undesirable into that which is worthy, and thus triumph. Mastery consists not in abnormal dreams, visions and fantastic imaginings or living, but in using the higher forces against the lower — escaping the pains of the lower planes by vibrating on the higher. Transmutation, not presumptuous denial, is the weapon of the Master." — The Kybalion.

Again thank you for such stimulating insight I have received throughout this thread. Really helped me fit some words into unknowingness.

Kind regards.

[WillowDarkWytch]

From such prism other human beings would not be just mental projections nor illusions, but beings more bound to Law than the magus in our example.

I totally agree with that statement, for me it's not about being "better" or "higher" or whatever, it's about being more aware, more entuned/aligned to Will/Higher Self. But indeed we are just as part of the All as any other, and as such, we must know how to flow with the cosmic waves.

For me there's a difference between The Magus and "a magician". We are all magicians, witches, "magists" here, though Magus, I don't know. It's a relly big word.

Saravá
Idansinají

[LoneWolf]

[...]
For me there's a difference between The Magus and "a magician". We are all magicians, witches, "magists" here, though Magus, I don't know. It's a relly big word.

Yes, I think the same. Magus is not only the chalice but water itself.

[Thaumaturgic Theorist]

From such prism other human beings would not be just mental projections nor illusions, but beings more bound to Law than the magus in our example.

Maybe it's just my own beliefs that won't allow me to are other humans as objects, and is frankly terrified and disgusted by the notion of manifesting a random (living, thinking, feeling) person for one's desires, or magickally forcing them to act in contact art ways to their natural behavior; thus I agree with the "attraction/right place right time" theory others here are proposing.

The whole question behind this thread is kinda solipsistic, too, which makes me even more doubtful.

At the same time....I have been curious in the past about the potential psychic abilities of thought projection. Now I fare fully the range of which such a capacity could be used...

[LoneWolf]

When analysing such phenomena from the idea that we are all in an external place and our will is only ours, I agree with you, Thaumaturgic Theorist, that it appears as Narcissistic.

However, and after further thinking about the subject, I think that it is also interesting nevertheless to consider that our will is part of the absolute and therefor all is aligned with it. Active and passive parts alike, and obviously, without the need of such elements to rationally understand the course of actions of the mechanism of existence.

If our will is what makes the choice of which events to experience as an element of the whole, following it must lead to the events that must BE as a collective; even if sometimes the creation or how it went from state A to B scapes our current understanding of the Universe.

My regards,

[Kath]

Human beings are really an example of sentience in it's infancy. I mean just looking at it as an evolutionary development alone, on a timeline it's obvious that we're still on training wheels.
We have consciousness and free will, in about the same quantities that babies or toddlers have full autonomy.
Much of the influences that carry our thoughts, actions, and even identities, around are from our environment, politics, religion, socio-cultural influence and indoctrination. If you don't think peoples' minds are influenced by outside forces, ask yourself how many Buddhists are born in Mecca.

This happens very much on a nonverbal interpersonal level as well. It is not a rare or exceptional thing, we *continuously* influence each other in soooo many ways, and on sooo many levels. With every voice pitch, with every shift in stature, we assert and concede various thoughts in the consciousness of others and ourselves. If you are in the presence of another person, even over the phone, it is happening. There are empathic, energetic, sympathetic, psychological, socially triggered, body language, vocal, infinite varieties of nuance to the interplay.

Usually, these interactions follow patterns we are used to. And usually this interplay is something people participate in entirely by accident. Some speaks from a place of confidence, we tend to yield to their input. A shy girl interacts with a guy and feels uncomfortable, making the boy feel uncomfortable, reinforcing the expectations of discomfort next time, etc. A bully seeking out those who wear their invisible kick-me sign loud and clear. But if you stop "reacting" to external stimuli, and plant yourself as a radiant beacon to an idea or feeling, exerting yourself into the universe around you... you can effectively run roughshod over other peoples' decision making processes. Well, moreso with practiced finesse and nuance... but still. If you really watch how people interact and function mentally and emotionally, that shouldn't be even slightly surprising. You can stimulate someone to feel amorous with your radiant 'lust' just as surely as you can stimulate someone to feel angry by punching them in the face. It's no less potent.

Now if someone was very strict in their thinking that they would not want such a relation, they could stop themselves. I mean, sure you could spend a week on someone really demolishing their free will, but just walking by? Yeah, she could have decided not to act on your projected feelings. Apparently she was not adverse though. Then again, in most people is the capacity on some level to do most things that are doable... so perhaps saying some part of her agreed to do it, is being a bit generous vs how much her actions were influenced.

Also, to be fair, some people have personal will which is about as robust as wet tissue paper. Others are more of a gray area.

Anyway, don't sweat it. If you refine in yourself strong focused states, and dwell on topics like Will, and manifestation, sooner or later you were bound to exert pressure on someone else's natural course of actions/thoughts/feelings. Its something that happens all the time, though usually less potently and with less directed intent. That refining your own internal state affected someone else is very very normal. And at least in your example, it's no more a crime than charisma is.

As to what it means for the way you interact with other people... how do you regard them?
I think, if you go particularly far down this rabbit hole, then you will likely start to strip away the sensation of other people having autonomous free will... if you start to feel that way (even though there is some truth to it), it will greatly degenerate your feelings of valuing the rapport you have with others, and it could bring about a profound loneliness (after a bit of power-mad 'acting out' to resolve past insecurities probably, or maybe even a sort of addictive behavior pattern based on dominating energy interplay). From there maybe you'll eventually want to stop interacting with people altogether because their presence is merely a mockery of your loneliness. Or maybe you'll push too hard and then see truly profound impact, and realize you're seriously harming people. But then maybe you'll just backtrack a ways, and reenter social existence while deliberately self-sabotaging your ... lets call it charisma, so as to feel like your interactions with others have more sovereign free willed meaning again.
or maybe, something, vaguely like that, perhaps. I dunno. who knows.

It's a conundrum. You cannot interact with others without influencing them. But it is possible to influence others to such a frightening degree that it could be considered brutally violent against their free will. And there's no one really to explain exactly how much influence is "ok" within the bounds of good will and compassion. Sentience has it's growing pains.

[LoneWolf]

Thank you for your insights Kath.

My regards