What happens to the world after perception changes?

[tripkos]

I don't know if the following is a modern psychological interpretation of the workings of magick, and if it is, i wonder how it differs from ancient views, if not for the terminology. I have a copy of "The secret teachings of all ages" but did not even skim through it yet. My current view on the workings of magick (in a nutshell) is as follows:

Magick is the science for the perfection of self. In order for the self to be perfect, it must first know itself for what it is. If the self becomes conscious of itself, then there are two selves; one that is conscious of the perception the other one has. If this second self becomes conscious of itself, then there are three selves; one that is conscious of two perceptions it has, and so on... . Some perceptions are positive, and others are negative. Once this is grasped by the leading self, it can change the perceptions of itself. If a negative perception is transmuted into a positive view, then the thing perceived is no longer a burden or does not behave in the same way as it did previously.

What i don't understand is; if perception changes, does the thing perceived also change? Is there some connection between the perceptions of some self and the things perceived (other humans for example), or is there some selective faculty at work which filters out the negative/positive behaviour of the thing perceived? If the latter is accurate, i don't see the need to immerse myself into the ancient sciences of magick anymore.

But if my consciousness is in an expanded state, i feel that there is something not right with the world out there. I believe at such an expanded state, that there's something hidden and archaïc in this universe most people don't know about. But the danger in this view is that it alienates me from the rest of people out there. Then there's also the superman thing, the hero's journey, batman, spider-man or super mario or whatever... . These things made me extremely paranoïd back in the days when i was younger. I felt as if every culture hunts down its witches, its fools, through the use of media etc... . One time, i was watching TV; there was a crowd hunting someone down. I felt as if i dissappeared in some crack in time and they didn't knew how to find me. Old days....

[Desecrated]

What i don't understand is; if perception changes, does the thing perceived also change? Is there some connection between the perceptions of some self and the things perceived (other humans for example), or is there some selective faculty at work which filters out the negative/positive behaviour of the thing perceived? If the latter is accurate, i don't see the need to immerse myself into the ancient sciences of magick anymore.

According to Plato - No.
According to Aristotle - Yes.
But I would also look into Kants A priori and a posteriori.

[CCoburn]

I think in the manifested world, things are the way they are,
and it doesn't matter how you perceive them. That doesn't
change the reality of anything.

In the Spirit world, perception has a greater degree of influence.
But a greater level of abstraction as well. More subjective. Perhaps
this abstract reality is more responsive to your perception of it.

And sure, there are people who ignore the evil in the world by
throwing a blanket over it. That doesn't change anything either.
Blanket being a metaphor, for a crude, ignorant selective faculty.

The world is Evil, because the creator is Evil(not entirely), Evil
being a human construct that perhaps is a necessary component
of a perfect system, that Humans don't comprehend. Sad but true.
Perception changes nothing here either.

Regards

[CCoburn]

I had to leave in a hurry and take my Girlfriend to work.
Back in like ten minutes, and I can't edit my post?

It's minor anyways, whatever.

[LoneWolf]

These things are impossible to prove so you should believe what your experience makes you percieve as truth, or, the one ideological set that empowers you to do most for the goal you have.

What I believe is As above so below, as within so without. I believe that we are all part of the Absolute. Division of the absolute into individuals is just for evolutionary pragmatism. Believing this helps my magick. Feeling as if I am my surroundings takes out the doubt of magick and empowers me. Not that you should care about my beliefs, all be said.

Feeling as if reality limits you is a great thing. Without feeling bad about it you wouldn't push yourself and grow. The world is not evil. The world IS. Evil and Good are just two faces of the same coin. Duality. Perception alone creates the concept of Good and Evil. Without such dualistic mechanism of perception you wouldn't percieve any of the two faces but the coin itself, which is existence.

Watch the world from outside of yourself.

My regards

[Kath]

Well, we're not talking about the capacity for perception shifts to change everything in the universe around us. We're talking here explicitly about perception changes having an internal effect on the components of self... which is localized enough that I believe perception changes can have a very very large effect on the perceived thing.

The best example I can think of, is in my own path I went through a process of shifting from self-recrimination regarding some facets of my psyche, to acceptance and embracing those components of self. As a result of moving facets of self out of the twisted condition of self denial and repression, and into a condition of being respected components of the greater whole of self... those facets changed considerably in how they manifested. Changing bits of self from pockets of self-rebellion using guerrilla tactics to occasionally get their way, to integrated members of the greater whole who can exert their influence openly as part of the normal way of being.

Above and beyond the aristotle/plato esoteric debate... anything you interact with, which also has the conscious capacity to react to how it is being perceived (either internal to self or out in the collective manifest reality), will undoubtedly react to changes in perception beyond just the perception itself. And that is easily verifiable.

[CCoburn]

Well, we're not talking about the capacity for perception shifts to change everything in the universe around us. We're talking here explicitly about perception changes having an internal effect on the components of self... which is localized enough that I believe perception changes can have a very very large effect on the perceived thing.

I got a bit hung up on the topic title when responding to this.
I agree perception is definitely a catalyst with regard to the inner workings of
the Microcosm. But perception alone obviously has no effect on the Macrocosm,
or the Microcosm. It's just a preliminary stage that precedes any "real" action.

Perception is the critical first step for change to occur, but is fairly sterile by itself.

Addios

[LoneWolf]

[...]perception alone obviously has no effect on the Macrocosm,
or the Microcosm. It's just a preliminary stage that precedes any "real" action.

Perception is the critical first step for change to occur, but is fairly sterile by itself.

Addios

I partly agree. From the Macrocosmic point of view perception of an individual doesn't change anything, yes.

However I believe perception changes the external world as percieved from the observer, and thus, it is not sterile at all. Perception is the mechanism of apreciating a part of the Macrocosm. Perception makes it be water or wine, for they are all, when percieved from outside the human shoes.

Both depression and hapiness were contained in the individual, for nothing from the outside came into it when the shift took place. Therefore the change must have been a change of perspective. You merely stopped looking at one thing and started looking at the other, or rather, you looked at the same thing from another angle from then on. When percieving the external world one may do the same at will.

This is not a fundamental, substantial (of substance, not importance) change, but since perception is the whole of our existence and we don't experience what we don't percieve, one may conclude for pragmatism's sake that perception does change the world you see.

Regards

[CCoburn]

However I believe perception changes the external world as perceived from the observer, and thus, it is not sterile at all.

From a Quantum perspective you could say there is no external world, and nothing
exists unless it is being observed. With certain rules since everyone observes the same
materializations to a high degree.

Or you could say there exists a material world that is independent of observation, and
the only thing that truly changes is the internal perception of it.

I'd say perception affects what is Within, not to be confused with what is Without.
How you observe and process something, does not affect the thing, only you.

Aloha

[Daremo]

What i don't understand is; if perception changes, does the thing perceived also change? Is there some connection between the perceptions of some self and the things perceived (other humans for example), or is there some selective faculty at work which filters out the negative/positive behaviour of the thing perceived? If the latter is accurate, i don't see the need to immerse myself into the ancient sciences of magick anymore.

But if my consciousness is in an expanded state, i feel that there is something not right with the world out there. I believe at such an expanded state, that there's something hidden and archaïc in this universe most people don't know about. But the danger in this view is that it alienates me from the rest of people out there. Then there's also the superman thing, the hero's journey, batman, spider-man or super mario or whatever... . These things made me extremely paranoïd back in the days when i was younger. I felt as if every culture hunts down its witches, its fools, through the use of media etc... . One time, i was watching TV; there was a crowd hunting someone down. I felt as if i dissappeared in some crack in time and they didn't knew how to find me. Old days....

If you feel your alienated from people because of how you percieve the world do you also feel those people treat you differently because of your perception? Do you feel you have a universal consciousness and thus dont need to progress anymore? Or do you feel perception is changed easily enough with out magickal practice? Without magick how do you propose we alter our perceptions?

If science is correct in its theory energy is neither created nor destroyed then all things are an interplay of energy transformation, which means if our perception changes then we have caused the surroundings to rearrange itself to accomadate the ripple we have created. Perception is energy and changing perception is changing energy so even the slightest shift of energy by this point of view changes the universe.
We could also argue that perception is not the physical act of sending and transmitting signals and merely the interpretation of thise signals recieved but the act of analysis is thought and thought is energy. In this case we are focusing on the effect of our interpetations of an event or events. In this case i propose considering the effect of a racist whose life was saved and nursed back to health by a person of the hated race, and so the racists perception changes from that experience....how much do you think that would affect the world outside of them?