Commentary on Matthew 4

[LoneWolf]

1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
[...]

I would like to hear whatever this text suggests to anybody.

My interpretation is as follows:

Our existence is completely sustained by the ALL. The Magi don't do but their uttermost purest will, which is God's will.
If his real will was to transcend his own humanity and become elevated by fasting, even when if he willed he could have had the stones be made bread, such thing was not needed. For he following his will was enough to ensure that he would keep on living (or dying if that should be)

In my opinion this is a clear example on transcending ones humanity.
First layer you feel that you need to eat and that you must take care of yourself. With your hands you find and seek such nourishment.
Second layer you know that all things that sustain your existence are at your reach. Any symbolic act such as speaking your nourishment into existence is enough to access such goods.
Third layer is when your true will is to fast and you abide. The devil in this text is but the last resort of our ego and his attempt to keep us from elevating. I believe It also represents the trap(or gift) of the magician and the use of magick to fulfill things not needed by our holy task and that just lead to the indulgement of the senses and the ego.

Any commentary of any kind is very much appreciated.

My regards

[Desecrated]

Now you are mixing hermeticism with gnosticism.

The christian interpretation of this text is: Faith. "Through faith alone".

[Daremo]

I find the very first line the most interesting. That he was led by the spirit to be tempted by the devil. Its not that he went to fast or meditate and the devil then tried to intervene he went to the wilderness to face temptation which did not occur until after 40 days of fasting at which point ketoasidosis(sp?) Is in full swing and euphoria and hallucinations set in, if by fast it is meant no food which isnt always the case. So it appears it was actually a technique to summon the devil. The wording is a little dicey so i could be deriving the wrong interpretation here.

[cactusjack543]

mabbbby some oil be good want something to last seems good here first

thats what i told erase dna and we got coffee this month....

[fraterai]

Now you are mixing hermeticism with gnosticism.

They are very much related, overlap, and influenced one another. Not only according to my own ideas about both systems, but Wikipedia, a source you have also copy/pasted in regards to questions related to Gnosticism. I also don't see where OP's ideas are solely "Gnostic" and where they are "Hermetic". Can you elaborate?

I don't agree with Daremo. I agree with the Gnostic interpretation, and thus agree with OP. The "devil" is the Demiurge, anything that binds us to the non-spiritual vehicles. By breaking your analysis into the proper layers you have reached a sound understanding, I think.

Where I defer from many Gnostics is that I do not agree with the "three types of people" the Cathars (e.g.) went on about. I think the body, soul, and spirit must all be ridden like three well trained horses, neither element ignored. This can be interpreted as a Hermetic ideal, but also one shared by many Gnostics.

-AI

[Desecrated]

Now you are mixing hermeticism with gnosticism.

They are very much related, overlap, and influenced one another. Not only according to my own ideas about both systems, but Wikipedia, a source you have also copy/pasted in regards to questions related to Gnosticism. I also don't see where OP's ideas are solely "Gnostic" and where they are "Hermetic". Can you elaborate?I

Absolutely, both are greek/egyptian versions of judeochristian philosophy so there certainly is an overlaps.
The view of god is however very different. The god, All/Singularity in corpus hermeticum and the gnostic idea of demiurge and dualism differs.

So if you interpret matthew 4 from a gnostic perspective, you get somebody confronting the materialistic part with the spiritual part. You see a separation.
But if you look at it from a hermetic view; you get somebody who realizes that these are all part of the one, and that the tempter can't give him anything because it is "all" already.

And from a christian view it is just a discussion about faith. Because the theme of Matthew is faith, and this is a story about how Jesus demonstrates absolute blind faith in god even when temped with all the riches of the world.

But it really needs to be read in a context, chapter 4 is the prologue to the sermon on the mountain. And then in chapter 8-11 you have all of the miracles that jesus performs (through faith).

But from a magic perspective it is kinda cool, because you can interpret it as a guy doing a long ritual, getting in contact with the spirits, getting some sort of enlightenment from them, and then go on performinc a whole bunch of crazy Zoroastrian Magi like healing, walking on water, psychic premonitions and all other harry potter business.

[Daremo]

I don't agree with Daremo.

Just curious what you disagreed with?

[fraterai]

Everything you said. I don't think this passage has anything to do with ketoacidosis, hallucinating, or summoning the devil.

Des - i get what you're saying and mostly agree with your definitions, but Gnostic dualism is pretty much limited to the creation of matter and the binding of spirit to matter, their ideas of the Supreme/"Unknowable" god and the Pleroma describe the ultimate/All/unification/single source of everything. One Gnostic might be a staunch dualist but dualist ideas described by another might be within the context of a specific Aeon.

Valentinus, arguably one of the most influential Gnostics, clearly taught Monism. He said ""the entirety was inside of him--the inconceivable, uncontained, who is superior to all thought." These ideas can very positively be "mixed" depending on the context and the spiritual realities being explored. Similarly dualism pops up in Hermetics all of the time, such as the GD controlling the "dragon" of our "lower self", or that the kabbalah teaches how something can spring from nothing, or the all can break into parts, or "monistic dualism". It's not black and white, in my opinion, and I think many Hermetics and Gnostics would agree.

Basically I think that by saying "Gnostics are Dualist" and "Hermetics are Monist" is fine for classification purposes and generally describes the concepts either is mostly concerned with, but in the end it is too much a simplification to have a real conversation about the two systems.

Edit: I think we agree - context is everything

[Daremo]

Everything you said. I don't think this passage has anything to do with ketoacidosis, hallucinating, or summoning the devil.

Thanks I appreciate it.

[Desecrated]

Basically I think that by saying "Gnostics are Dualist" and "Hermetics are Monist" is fine for classification purposes and generally describes the concepts either is mostly concerned with, but in the end it is too much a simplification to have a real conversation about the two systems.

I think that is a pretty fucking solid argument to be honest.
You win.