On good and evil

[Johnnystuff]

What is good and what is evil?
All we know is that they are absolutely interdependent. They are terms of comparison. But they are comparing what? Or better put, whom?
I would love to talk on the subject of man being good or evil, of action being righteous or not.

What society says

What is illegal is evil, so they of took care of the problem of someone acting evil without repercussions.

What Christianity says

Evil is the one that doesn’t respect the will of god, the 10 commandments.
Shall I respect them?
If I am to see things from the perspective of this religion, I shouldn’t even be able to know what is the difference between good and evil is. That should be the result of the capital sin (i.e. Adam and Eve eating the apple from the tree of Good and Evil).
It is my sin that I have been cleansed of at my baptism. Why, for the name of Christ, would I enjoy the fruits of the capital sin (compare good and evil) just because I can?
If I get a ticket for illegally purchasing a gun, it would be of a great foolishness of me to use it! And I would definitely get in trouble for doing so.
Let’s assume although, that we are completely retarded and we shouldn’t know what good and evil is.
Let’s assume that the bible was absolutely right about the sin. A snake (the devil), the evil personified comes at these 2 and tell them to taste the apple. This apple let people know or at least gives them a clue of what good and evil is, but one thing we know for certain from the bible: the snake was evil.
Either we don’t understand what good and evil are, either god made people perceive the snake as evil to punish it (but that surely makes no sense of why he let us know what happened in there).
In the end, even if I wanted to be righteous from a Christian point of view, I couldn’t. Not after I read a text that I received from my local Christian church that mentioned:
Quote: “Thinking about the nature of self is considered a sin”

What I say

Later, my logic brought me a purpose of life. Me, realizing that life is a gift and I have to live it at its greatest potential, I concluded that anything that would push me in that direction was good, and everything that would stop me from achieving it was evil.

What the esoteric say

But then I discovered the variety of the esoteric. I discovered Jewish mysticism, alchemy, Gnosticism and many other pseudo-sciences that conceal a great deal of power and operate life from a higher point of view. These sciences constantly reminded me that fact that to reach higher states of consciousness, one has to conquer its ego. Not necessarily to destroy it, but at least to detach from it.
The righteous man is the one that does not want for itself, but for others.
This led me to another conclusion: These sciences that I trust 100% were telling me that to enter my role as a mortal being and to dwell myself in the flesh and the pleasures thereof, are indeed the wrong path.
They advised me to care about people around me, and to tame my selfishness.

But my nihilistic theory kicked in:

All is an illusion and the reality is mere a projection of mine. But higher sciences that thought me that, also thought me to care about others, to make a difference and help others.
BUT: if I am an illusion, and the reality is an illusion, than caring about other beings is totally useless.
Either I acknowledge this illusion, and I am aware that I am soul in a vessel and I have to ascend in a higher state and I have to focus on MY ascension even if that proves my selfishness for being ignorant to the existence of others.
Either I am living a physical plane but according to the doctrine, I would live it in a total lack of substance, lack of all physical possessions, lack of any desire and will to evolve. I would obviously mock my creator’s gift to me, but I would be (according to the doctrines) righteous.
This isn’t very surprising, for the doctrine of Buddhism clearly states that real existence is pure suffering.
I must, by any logic being it physical or spiritual, deny this affirmation and realize that I cannot possibly make a joke out of this fabulous gift and live it simple as they advise us.
According to my life experience by now, my journey has always been a little better than worse, many times more good than bad, and even if I ought to be powerless and mindless and without resources, my life would be amazing as it is. I see this doctrine as a great mockery, a great hypocrisy.
I see it more like a temporary practice of achieving the pity of the gods, than a lifestyle.
To be continued…

I know I am missing a whole lot of points here but this is a quick thought that is constantly bothering me.

[Daud]

No one can be truly evil, just deluded and unaware of their true nature. The law of the universe does not register evil. Evil arises from ego grasping, like you said all those who seek true enlightenment must destroy the ego. This is because how we perceive ourselves and the ego is deluded. The 'I' like everything around you is emptiness. Perception of all involves abandonment of one.

What do you mean by 'real' existence? Existence lived in delusion leads to suffering.
All existence (in samsara) is suffering, in that even pleasant experiences lead to suffering eventually. Reincarnation conditions aside you can tell this just by analysing the world around you. Every friend you make you will eventually be parted from, every lover you have you will inevitably quarrel with, every building you build will eventually fall down. The more sweet food you eat, the fatter you get and the more miserable you feel. I could go on forever.

You are not seperate from 'your creator'. A choice made to attain enlightenment for the benefit of all sentient beings would certainly not be mocking anything or anyone.

[Johnnystuff]

Yes, I am aware of my true nature, but as weird as it may sound, I decided to enjoy this illusion called reality and make the best I can to satisfy my 5 senses.
I don't believe in reincarnation. I believe that after my body will cease living, my soul will step into the astral realm. I do believe this because I've been there.

I will not suffer. I am aware that everything that I attach to emotionally willl eventually come to an end. I just want to make the best of it.I believe that the one who put me into this scene, on this stage called life, want me to be joyful about it.This is contradicting your principle of life.

My question is that:
If I do this, I cannot obviously be righteous. So eventually, I am evil?

[Daud]

You will do attain enlightenment eventually, everyone will. When you decide to do this is up to you. It doesn't make you evil, it just means its not your time. I've been to the astral realm as well. It is talked about in Buddhism a little, but not much because it is deemed 'irrelevant'. If there is one thing that annoys me about my religion is its lack of willingness to explore anything other than what you directly need to attain enlightenment.
I know for a fact that reincarnation is real, but i respect that you have your own opinions and a right to them, so i won't force mine down your throat
I'm not entirely sure what the astral ream is as there are several different theories floating around. I believe it is home to the Preta, Azura and lesser Deva depending on what level you are on. You can be reborn in this realm but you will eventually die as well and find rebirth elsewhere, usually in a grosser material form.
It's up to you in the end, how you want to live your life. It is not evil to follow a path aside from enlightenment, as a renunciate bodhisattva i would call it a wasted opportunity, but it is not evil. As long as you are a good person (which i suspect you are) and are kind to others, you cannot be labelled evil.

[Johnnystuff]

Your answer is helping me a lot. Thank you very much for taking your time to answer me.

[Shinichi]

Good and evil do not exist in nature. There are things that are good for you and things that are bad for you, actions that are honorable and dishonorable. But good and evil as you are discussing it here is nothing more than a human idea used to judge others.

Is murder evil? According to most. But is it good for a soldier to kill people who are deemed a threat to society? Again, according to most. Is it evil for an executioner to kill death row criminals? Execution is less favored than it used to be, but it is still practiced and considered just by many.

Nature is both more simple and more nuanced than this idealized duality that religion presents. Don't get caught up in the result of other people's mental masturbation - examine the true nature of things, and of yourself, without the biases that society have programmed you to have.



~:Shin:~

[Johnnystuff]

Yes that seems legit. Thank you for enlightening me on this topic

[inMalkuth]

I have to ask the Buddhist why all of this exists? Are we simply here to transcend it? What happens then? Do we exist in this removed state, or do we interact with this state in an attempt to gather others into the enlightened condition of existing "above"? If so, then whats the point, exactly? It seems to me that the point of all of this is; all of this.

If you believe in a Creator then you have to accept that all of this is created for us to engage in, and that denying the flesh goes against the purpose of it all. Surely the righteous man who sees beyond his own desires and wants to aid others is just- but does the righteous man also deny himself of the pleasures of life? Wouldn't a righteous man want to liberate his fellow people to be able to experience life? For this I turn to Crowley.

My take on good and evil comes down to the essential fact that we all need to survive and beyond that; to thrive. Anything that prevents our survival and prosperity becomes labeled as "evil". In other words; Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not covet....

I think the magicians motto of "Do What Thou Wilt" sums it up best, but not in itself. One needs to recognize that ensuring ones own personal liberty means ensuring the personal liberty of others as well. In other words; if it inhibits your own ability to experience then you shouldn't do it to others, either.

And as far as "life is suffering" and the "astral plane" I would say that the things we attach ourselves to in this world carry over into the next one- unless we are allowed to become gods, in which case we would be allowed to experience whatever we choose, and to create whatever we want (and I don't believe this is the aim of the Buddhist). My point is that you should find out what you like, and why, and make certain it is what you want and is good, because you will carry it with you. I do not believe that any or many of us will be allowed to become Gods.

Oh, and as far as an angel goes- those beings are created and do not possess free will, so the thought that we become that is something of a step back from what we have now, wouldn't you agree?