Egyptian Gods vs. God of the Bible

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Anubis RainHawk

I go to a small Christian high school in San Francisco. A few weeks ago, my Bible class was given an assignment to illustrate one of the ten plagues and write the name of the Egyptian deity defied by the plague on the back of the illustration. The way my teacher described the assignment, an Egyptian deity was defied because the plagues showed that the Gods were not truly in contol, that the God of the Bible was in control. As an example, on of my clasmates wrote that Ra was defied by the plague of darkness.

I'm curious as to your thoughts? Would you support my teacher's assignment? If not, why?

Thanks.

Anubis RainHawk

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Jenfucius

I believe on A&E or one of those TV channels had a documentry of the 10 Plagues of Egypt explained by natural events.

As for teacher. If he's a fanatical conservative Christian its probably not good to exposed his ignorance on the subject. I think your teacher's assignment was meant to drill a particular extreame and bias way of fundamental Christian indoctrination to the students.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Marquise De Sade

I remember watching something similar on T.V. Anyway if you want to debate with your teacher I guess you can use this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_of_Egypt

Scroll down. Careful though. You don't know how your teacher will respond.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Gavriel

... Except for the fact that the Egyptians where there before the Israelites with there monotheism.

HINT: YHVH came from Set, the God of war, and plague - but if you follwoed Set, he was nice to ypu, and protecting, and stuck near to you...

Peace.

PS. Set is not "Evil". Set is on Ra's boat defending Ra...

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: insert_name_here

... Except for the fact that the Egyptians where there before the Israelites with there monotheism.

HINT: YHVH came from Set, the God of war, and plague - but if you follwoed Set, he was nice to ypu, and protecting, and stuck near to you...

Peace.

PS. Set is not "Evil". Set is on Ra's boat defending Ra...

Back your claims up.
In later mythology it was Thoth who defended and Set who was the demon.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: DocHolliday

Ugh....

1)The historicity or lack thereof regarding the plagues is irrelevant to the Biblical narrative. From the perspective of the Hebrew Bible, it doesn't matter if they can be explained away by natural events, since Judaic theology sees God acting through and in nature.

2)Similar to the point above, the purpose of the plague narrative is to show that the God of Abraham is the true God, and thus superior to the netjeru of Egypt. Again, this is an exercise in polemics any historical veracity is unnecessary.

3)The emergence of the Egyptians as an event prior to the emergence of the Hebrews from within the Hyksos is irrelevant to this discussion, as is the development of monotheism.

4)There is nothing by which one may link the Hebraic concept of God with any pre-existing belief or conception within the ancient near east. There are commonalities between later Egyptian cosmology and Hebraic cosmology, but this could only be used to argue that the Hebraic concept of God was born from Atum/Temu/Ra/Ptah/Khnum (depending on which Egyptian cosmology you wish to question). While Horus-Set and Wepwawet are the oldest known Egyptian gods (Horus-Set being the oldest of the two), the concept of Set which the Hyksos affixed themselves to was near the apex of the Osirian cult's dominancy. In fact, it was the Hyksos identification of Set (called Sutekh) as Baal that lead to the final villifcation of Set in Egyptian lore.

5)Many depictions of God which some try to say illustate that "he" is an amalgamation of Canaanite and other near-eastern gods completely gloss past the idea of polemical writing.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: nebhotep

hi
well if the two sides were to wage war note the were lol the egyptians would win of course lol how could they not with such a numerical advantage lol no its just a monotheist propaganda excercise so respond by telling him ideas of christia hell, the cross and the virgin mary came from egyptian mythology thatll sort it lol.

Nebhotep

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Mmothra

The assignment seems reasonable enough to me...although being at a Christian school you probably should expect some bias, even here in SF.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Skeptismo118

[QUOTE=Gavriel]HINT: YHVH came from Set, the God of war, and plague - but if you follwoed Set, he was nice to ypu, and protecting, and stuck near to you...[/QUOTE]
That's a load of crap.

Good luck in High School.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Dunhill

I saw the A&E special. It didn't mention the 'mold theory' but it is an interesting hypotheses in the wikipedia article.

Ah - the J & E sources. Now I have to dig out my book on the Deuteronomic Historian to tell the differences between the J, D, P & E sources. I think there was a Q too but that might have been the NT.

That is an interesting assignment. I had never really thought of applying the plagues to Egyptian deities showing God's power over them. It would rely on the Hebrews knowing of Egyptian mythology for generations after the Exodus for the symbolism to have any significance whatsoever.

Personally I see it as a pretty far reach however. A little too heavy on the eisegesis for my tastes. A better example of the point the teacher is trying to make would be the writings during the Babylonian captivity where there is a shift from wars seen as a battle of national deities to the kings of foriegn lands being used as God's pawns for an instrument of punishment.

I am curious though if the teacher in question is going for a literal or symbolic interpretation of the OT.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Anubis RainHawk

[QUOTE=Skeptismo118]That's a load of crap.

Good luck in High School.[/QUOTE]
Thanks

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Anubis RainHawk

[QUOTE=Marquise De Sade]I remember watching something similar on T.V. Anyway if you want to debate with your teacher I guess you can use this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_of_Egypt

Scroll down. Careful though. You don't know how your teacher will respond.[/QUOTE]
That helps. Thanks.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Samhain

Please read the advice from Jenfucius, Anubis. It would be wise to avoid getting into a pissing contest with a fundie nut who's in a position of authority over you. Instead, just remind yourself that you'll soon be out of that school and away from such people.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Lacramioara

How do teacher say that Christian God in control when there be many plagues in Christian socites?

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Gavriel

[QUOTE=Lacramioara]How do teacher say that Christian God in control when there be many plagues in Christian socites?[/QUOTE] Well, at least in my Christian school, they say it's to "Strengthen" you, so you can become "better". In all reality, if their Christian God wants me to be better, he can just say that he wants me better, and I will be. Why suffer if their God can just say "Your better".

I'd rather use my Words of Power, and bring exactly what I want into effect, with co-operation of the Gods.

If it fails this time, always next time.

Peace, my friend.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Aodh

[QUOTE=Anubis RainHawk]I go to a small Christian high school in San Francisco. A few weeks ago, my Bible class was given an assignment to illustrate one of the ten plagues and write the name of the Egyptian deity defied by the plague on the back of the illustration. The way my teacher described the assignment, an Egyptian deity was defied because the plagues showed that the Gods were not truly in contol, that the God of the Bible was in control. As an example, on of my clasmates wrote that Ra was defied by the plague of darkness.

I'm curious as to your thoughts? Would you support my teacher's assignment? If not, why?

Thanks.

Anubis RainHawk[/QUOTE]
It's BIBLE class. I see no real problem with the assignment nor do I find it 'fanatical'.

Most gods that developed at times such as the Egyptian gods in polytheistic religions were personified forces that eventually gained more and more human-qualities in myth. If one god is a god of rain or flooding, and another god comes in and causes a flood on their own, God B is defying God A because he's taking control of the other's dominion. Ra was a god often associated with the Sun or identified as the Sun itself, if Yahweh caused/causes lack of sunlight, he's defying Ra's dominion.

What's the problem with the assumption?

...

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Jenfucius

[QUOTE=DocHolliday]Ugh....

1)The historicity or lack thereof regarding the plagues is irrelevant to the Biblical narrative. From the perspective of the Hebrew Bible, it doesn't matter if they can be explained away by natural events, since Judaic theology sees God acting through and in nature.

[/QUOTE] That may be so in Judaic theology. Fair enough.
Plagues and natural disasters are nothing new throughout human recorded history. Even to this day we have witness storms, floods, earthquakes, new diseases etc.
Act of God????:shock: I wouldnt and dont really know. :roll:

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Aodh

The topic is about an assignment in Bible class at a Christian High School.

It doesn't matter if YOU think it was an act of any god or not. It's a given that in a class about Christian theology when the 9/10 plagues that God brought upon Egypt are discussed, they are going on the assumption that GOD caused them.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: CaptainNately

I would say its not so simple as all that.

Quote-Aodh
"Most gods that developed at times such as the Egyptian gods in polytheistic religions were personified forces that eventually gained more and more human-qualities in myth. If one god is a god of rain or flooding, and another god comes in and causes a flood on their own, God B is defying God A because he's taking control of the other's dominion. Ra was a god often associated with the Sun or identified as the Sun itself, if Yahweh caused/causes lack of sunlight, he's defying Ra's dominion."

This is going towards the right answer IMO....But the lesson I believe is that YHWH (as I am-The Alpha and the Omega)- Is the higher authority. By calling to their aspect-like gods whom are under the dominion of the almighty- The egyptians divide up the indivisible, and Moses by beleif in the one(ness of) God would have taught them a valuable lesson. The one God is over the aspects,(powers, gods...).

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Samhain

[QUOTE=CaptainNately]I would say its not so simple as all that.

Quote-Aodh
"Most gods that developed at times such as the Egyptian gods in polytheistic religions were personified forces that eventually gained more and more human-qualities in myth. If one god is a god of rain or flooding, and another god comes in and causes a flood on their own, God B is defying God A because he's taking control of the other's dominion. Ra was a god often associated with the Sun or identified as the Sun itself, if Yahweh caused/causes lack of sunlight, he's defying Ra's dominion."

This is going towards the right answer IMO....But the lesson I believe is that YHWH (as I am-The Alpha and the Omega)- Is the higher authority. By calling to their aspect-like gods whom are under the dominion of the almighty- The egyptians divide up the indivisible, and Moses by beleif in the one(ness of) God would have taught them a valuable lesson. The one God is over the aspects,(powers, gods...).[/QUOTE]
That's awfully close to preaching. You're entitled to your opinion, but many people would disagree. To a lot of us, the idea of one ubergod seems improbable, based on what we've seen of life. And a lot of us see the Gods as much more than "personified forces". It's okay if you want to think that the Gods don't really exist, but it's also important to accept the fact that a lot of folks at OF will disagree with you.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: CaptainNately

[QUOTE=Samhain]That's awfully close to preaching. You're entitled to your opinion, but many people would disagree. To a lot of us, the idea of one ubergod seems improbable, based on what we've seen of life. And a lot of us see the Gods as much more than "personified forces". It's okay if you want to think that the Gods don't really exist, but it's also important to accept the fact that a lot of folks at OF will disagree with you.[/QUOTE]
This is just my spin on it. What it means to you is up to you. Gods may indeed be real spiritual entities - at least to those who beleive in them. Personally I don't want to spend my time on gods. I am well aware that people here may not agree with me, and that is a good thing IMO. I will say again that I don't deny the existence of gods, but I don't think that they are the top of the chain. Read the passage that is in question. The Egyptians do produce snakes- but Moses snake consumes them all...

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: DocHolliday

For the subject in question, CN is on target, and I personally think it's unfair to say he's verging on the preachy with his comments. Many of the associations made by the Egyptians for their deities were related to either natural phenomenon or the habits of certain animals. From the Abrahamic perspepctive, the One God, as the Master of nature, indeed has the power to trump the gods of Egypt. This is precisely what the Biblical record depicts. Whether or not the posters here agree with or believe in that account is in no way relevant. The writer(s) of the passages in question and those who adhere to the teachings of the book in which it is contained believe it, and when addressing the text from the Abrahamic perspective, that is all which matters.

I think a lot of people are missing the point entirely. It was already noted that this is an assignment given in context of Christianity and Christian belief, for a Christian-themed class. Just about every post in this thread has been completely irrelevant, IMHO.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Samhain

[QUOTE=DocHolliday]For the subject in question, CN is on target, and I personally think it's unfair to say he's verging on the preachy with his comments. Many of the associations made by the Egyptians for their deities were related to either natural phenomenon or the habits of certain animals. From the Abrahamic perspepctive, the One God, as the Master of nature, indeed has the power to trump the gods of Egypt. This is precisely what the Biblical record depicts. Whether or not the posters here agree with or believe in that account is in no way relevant. The writer(s) of the passages in question and those who adhere to the teachings of the book in which it is contained believe it, and when addressing the text from the Abrahamic perspective, that is all which matters.

I think a lot of people are missing the point entirely. It was already noted that this is an assignment given in context of Christianity and Christian belief, for a Christian-themed class. Just about every post in this thread has been completely irrelevant, IMHO.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that my first post was irrelevant, when I advised the student to co-operate with the teacher for the sake of his own sanity. However, when I see someone posting a comment that I interpret as "this is how things are and you must accept this perspective as the truth", I'm going to comment on that. That's precisely the kind of attitude that's causing trouble for the student who started the thread. And it's a viewpoint that many of us think is silly.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: hayabusa

How was he preaching again? He said "IMO". That means it's his/her opinion. Sheesh.

I wish the boring classes I had to take at Sunday school were as interesting as that assignment. I would've been learning about Egyptian gods. I think that assignment you were given, Anubis RainHawk could be a blessing in disguise. I would use it to learn more about the Egyptian Pantheon.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: DocHolliday

I don't think that my first post was irrelevant, when I advised the student to co-operate with the teacher for the sake of his own sanity.

I did not mean to indicate that every post has been irrelevant. I merely feel that, given the assignment and the context within which it was given, comments about the veracity of the Biblical account simply are not necessary.

However, when I see someone posting a comment that I interpret as "this is how things are and you must accept this perspective as the truth", I'm going to comment on that. That's precisely the kind of attitude that's causing trouble for the student who started the thread. And it's a viewpoint that many of us think is silly.

I understand that as well. However, it doesn't appear that the assignment is "give your opinion about the truth or lack of truth in the Hebrew Bible," but rather "how does this account depict the One God of the Hebrews as superior to the gods of Egypt."

:shrug: I wasn't meaning to be offensive to any of the posters.