Original post: Specktackular
I always thought that your True Will would be in harmony with cosmic law, basically the Golden Rule in all situations.
This came from the realization that negative personality traits stem from lack of understanding about one's relationship to his environment due to the narrow focus of the individual. "The older, the wiser" and all that.
The True Will of the cosmos, however, is to allow personal freedom to the fullest extent possible. If a person wants to be a jerk, he can, but someone will most likely want to be a jerk right back.
The Great Work ultimately refers to refinement of the self, I think. Since various occultists have differing dispositions, I take it True Will is more relative than the Golden Rule and perhaps even changes over the course of a single lifetime. In any case, your True Will is the True Will of the cosmos, which preserves your right to personal freedom. Put another way, the Tao supports all.
Also, is it a Great Secret? If I discovered my True Will, why not tell the whole world?
C'mon... you can tell me.
What's your True Will?
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What's your True Will?
Original post: Ludi
Is it possible to put the True Will into words, even?
Is it possible to put the True Will into words, even?
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What's your True Will?
Original post: Nalyd23
Love
Love
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What's your True Will?
Original post: Specktackular
So it's how I feel about my kitty, then. I knew it! :lol:
So it's how I feel about my kitty, then. I knew it! :lol:
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What's your True Will?
Original post: Specktackular
I wonder if Crowley ever found his True Will. Since the idea is to fulfill your ultimate goal without trampling on anyone else's in this lifetime, does it seem from his relations with others that he followed his True Will?
I wonder if Crowley ever found his True Will. Since the idea is to fulfill your ultimate goal without trampling on anyone else's in this lifetime, does it seem from his relations with others that he followed his True Will?
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What's your True Will?
Original post: Nalyd23
The thing about that Speck is that maybe someone's True Will is to trample over others. Sometimes others get in the way of you carrying out your True Will. Not everyone else is living Thelema, it may not be their True Wills to do so, which, ironically would be living Thelema. What about dealings with others who are not living according to Will? How would we live Thelemically if others are not on similar True Paths? This is the problem I have with Thelema and it's usual interpretation. I said Love above because that seems to be the glue that binds all of our actions. Love, not in the romantic "I love you" sense, but in the "hidden variable" or "strange attractor" sense. Love is the guiding light of Will. That is how I personally interpret "Love under Will", it is the occult aspect of it (under, hidden). It is a formula and has been demonstrated in Quantum Theory and Chaos Theory both as the two things I mentioned above : Hidden Variables and Strange Attractors. Love is Superluminal. To act according to Will it helps to act according Love. Rin Daemoko had a thread about "dark energy" which also seems to fit this same description. Look here - Does This Sound Familiar?. Love can be Pure Information or Consciousness.
The thing about that Speck is that maybe someone's True Will is to trample over others. Sometimes others get in the way of you carrying out your True Will. Not everyone else is living Thelema, it may not be their True Wills to do so, which, ironically would be living Thelema. What about dealings with others who are not living according to Will? How would we live Thelemically if others are not on similar True Paths? This is the problem I have with Thelema and it's usual interpretation. I said Love above because that seems to be the glue that binds all of our actions. Love, not in the romantic "I love you" sense, but in the "hidden variable" or "strange attractor" sense. Love is the guiding light of Will. That is how I personally interpret "Love under Will", it is the occult aspect of it (under, hidden). It is a formula and has been demonstrated in Quantum Theory and Chaos Theory both as the two things I mentioned above : Hidden Variables and Strange Attractors. Love is Superluminal. To act according to Will it helps to act according Love. Rin Daemoko had a thread about "dark energy" which also seems to fit this same description. Look here - Does This Sound Familiar?. Love can be Pure Information or Consciousness.
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What's your True Will?
Original post: Specktackular
[QUOTE=Nalyd23]The thing about that Speck is that maybe someone's True Will is to trample over others. Sometimes others get in the way of you carrying out your True Will. Not everyone else is living Thelema, it may not be their True Wills to do so, which, ironically would be living Thelema. What about dealings with others who are not living according to Will? How would we live Thelemically if others are not on similar True Paths? This is the problem I have with Thelema and it's usual interpretation. I said Love above because that seems to be the glue that binds all of our actions. Love, not in the romantic "I love you" sense, but in the "hidden variable" or "strange attractor" sense. Love is the guiding light of Will. That is how I personally interpret "Love under Will", it is the occult aspect of it (under, hidden). It is a formula and has been demonstrated in Quantum Theory and Chaos Theory both as the two things I mentioned above : Hidden Variables and Strange Attractors. Love is Superluminal. To act according to Will it helps to act according Love. Rin Daemoko had a thread about "dark energy" which also seems to fit this same description. Look here - Does This Sound Familiar?. Love can be Pure Information or Consciousness.[/QUOTE]
But, I thought the idea was "there's room enough for everyone and not to step on toes"
Here's a quote from a dude online who may or may not have interpreted Crowley correctly:
------
"'Love is the Law' does not mean that physical love. This is the Love for yourself and all of humanity, good, bad, or indifferent. Do you have what it takes to truly Love yourself and others? Such is a long, hard process. Will, again, is your True Will. This means that you should achieve freedom and Love under the guidance of your True Will. Do all this (which may take many lifetimes), and you cannot go wrong.
Once you find your True Will, and take total responsibility for yourself, then you are capable of anything. You are in control, and then the piece of the Divine that lies within you can come forth.
"Every man and every woman is a star."
This is usually taken to mean that each individual is unique and has their own path in a spacious universe wherein they can move freely without collision.
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." and "thou hast no right but to do thy will."
Most Thelemites hold that every person possesses a True Will, a single overall motivation for their existence. The Law of Thelema mandates that each person follow their True Will to attain fulfillment in life and freedom from restriction of their nature. Because no two True Wills can be in real conflict (according to "Every man and every woman is a star"), this Law also prohibits one from interfering with the True Will of any other person.
The notion of absolute freedom for an individual to follow his or her True Will is a cherished one among Thelemites. This philosophy also recognizes that the main task of an individual setting out on the path of Thelema is to first discover his or her True Will, giving methods of self-exploration such as magick great importance. Furthermore, every True Will is different, and because each person has a unique point-of-view of the universe, no one can determine the True Will for another person. Each person must arrive at the discovery for themselves.
"Love is the law, love under will."
This is an important corollary to the above, indicating that the essential nature of the Law of Thelema is that of Love. Each individual unites with his or her True Self in Love, and so empowered, the entire universe of conscious beings unites with every other being in Love.
Of course, with the emphasis on freedom and individuality inherent in Thelema, the beliefs of any given Thelemite are likely to differ from those of any other. In the Comment appended to 'The Book of the Law' it is stated that:
"All questions of the Law are to be decided only by appeal to my writings, each for himself."
----
So, hopefully, one can see why I generally have some issues when a Thelemite tells me "Do what thou wilt" doesn't just mean "do whatever you want" because your True Will could plainly be to do whatever you want! This takes a little of the Love out of Crowley's image and puts a little more of the Beast back.
[QUOTE=Nalyd23]The thing about that Speck is that maybe someone's True Will is to trample over others. Sometimes others get in the way of you carrying out your True Will. Not everyone else is living Thelema, it may not be their True Wills to do so, which, ironically would be living Thelema. What about dealings with others who are not living according to Will? How would we live Thelemically if others are not on similar True Paths? This is the problem I have with Thelema and it's usual interpretation. I said Love above because that seems to be the glue that binds all of our actions. Love, not in the romantic "I love you" sense, but in the "hidden variable" or "strange attractor" sense. Love is the guiding light of Will. That is how I personally interpret "Love under Will", it is the occult aspect of it (under, hidden). It is a formula and has been demonstrated in Quantum Theory and Chaos Theory both as the two things I mentioned above : Hidden Variables and Strange Attractors. Love is Superluminal. To act according to Will it helps to act according Love. Rin Daemoko had a thread about "dark energy" which also seems to fit this same description. Look here - Does This Sound Familiar?. Love can be Pure Information or Consciousness.[/QUOTE]
But, I thought the idea was "there's room enough for everyone and not to step on toes"
Here's a quote from a dude online who may or may not have interpreted Crowley correctly:
------
"'Love is the Law' does not mean that physical love. This is the Love for yourself and all of humanity, good, bad, or indifferent. Do you have what it takes to truly Love yourself and others? Such is a long, hard process. Will, again, is your True Will. This means that you should achieve freedom and Love under the guidance of your True Will. Do all this (which may take many lifetimes), and you cannot go wrong.
Once you find your True Will, and take total responsibility for yourself, then you are capable of anything. You are in control, and then the piece of the Divine that lies within you can come forth.
"Every man and every woman is a star."
This is usually taken to mean that each individual is unique and has their own path in a spacious universe wherein they can move freely without collision.
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." and "thou hast no right but to do thy will."
Most Thelemites hold that every person possesses a True Will, a single overall motivation for their existence. The Law of Thelema mandates that each person follow their True Will to attain fulfillment in life and freedom from restriction of their nature. Because no two True Wills can be in real conflict (according to "Every man and every woman is a star"), this Law also prohibits one from interfering with the True Will of any other person.
The notion of absolute freedom for an individual to follow his or her True Will is a cherished one among Thelemites. This philosophy also recognizes that the main task of an individual setting out on the path of Thelema is to first discover his or her True Will, giving methods of self-exploration such as magick great importance. Furthermore, every True Will is different, and because each person has a unique point-of-view of the universe, no one can determine the True Will for another person. Each person must arrive at the discovery for themselves.
"Love is the law, love under will."
This is an important corollary to the above, indicating that the essential nature of the Law of Thelema is that of Love. Each individual unites with his or her True Self in Love, and so empowered, the entire universe of conscious beings unites with every other being in Love.
Of course, with the emphasis on freedom and individuality inherent in Thelema, the beliefs of any given Thelemite are likely to differ from those of any other. In the Comment appended to 'The Book of the Law' it is stated that:
"All questions of the Law are to be decided only by appeal to my writings, each for himself."
----
So, hopefully, one can see why I generally have some issues when a Thelemite tells me "Do what thou wilt" doesn't just mean "do whatever you want" because your True Will could plainly be to do whatever you want! This takes a little of the Love out of Crowley's image and puts a little more of the Beast back.
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What's your True Will?
Original post: Nalyd23
But like I said, not everyone is living according to their True Will, obviously. I also said Love is the guiding light of Will. It is the binding force, the law, the hidden variable or influence, that makes the yin/yang spin fast enough (superluminal/faster than light) where spin is no more and becomes Thou (Tao). This is my angle. You asked "What is your True Will?" Well that is not necessarily answerable in the small scope of this forum and I am sure everyone else would agree with at least that much, but I can give you my interpretation of what I think True Will seems to be to me. "Every Man and every Woman is a Star" What holds stars in their place? I gave a link to that "dark energy" that Rin brought up. Could it be that "dark energy" determining our position in space/time? Could that "dark energy" be Love? Hmmm. I usually don't even give this stuff much thought but we are kind of following each other around Speck so here I am talking about that un-talkable.:shock:
But like I said, not everyone is living according to their True Will, obviously. I also said Love is the guiding light of Will. It is the binding force, the law, the hidden variable or influence, that makes the yin/yang spin fast enough (superluminal/faster than light) where spin is no more and becomes Thou (Tao). This is my angle. You asked "What is your True Will?" Well that is not necessarily answerable in the small scope of this forum and I am sure everyone else would agree with at least that much, but I can give you my interpretation of what I think True Will seems to be to me. "Every Man and every Woman is a Star" What holds stars in their place? I gave a link to that "dark energy" that Rin brought up. Could it be that "dark energy" determining our position in space/time? Could that "dark energy" be Love? Hmmm. I usually don't even give this stuff much thought but we are kind of following each other around Speck so here I am talking about that un-talkable.:shock:
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What's your True Will?
Original post: KCh
Have you ever been on the internet and someone made a comment and gave a link that you just couldn't resist looking at? And once you did you couldn't get away from finding out as much as possible about it?
Have you ever saw a person about in the world and felt such an attraction to them that you found it practically impossible to turn away or not engage in conversation?
True Will is Pure Will. True Will is experiencing something like the above and acting on it without hesitation. Its finding the direction which is truly meant for you in a sense. It is always apparant, but it is also somewhat fleeting and far between.
It is a Love like no other and beyond all others. It is done for its own sake and is apparant by your lack of interest in the end product of its fulfillment or its moral standing with the rest of the world.
Have you ever been on the internet and someone made a comment and gave a link that you just couldn't resist looking at? And once you did you couldn't get away from finding out as much as possible about it?
Have you ever saw a person about in the world and felt such an attraction to them that you found it practically impossible to turn away or not engage in conversation?
True Will is Pure Will. True Will is experiencing something like the above and acting on it without hesitation. Its finding the direction which is truly meant for you in a sense. It is always apparant, but it is also somewhat fleeting and far between.
It is a Love like no other and beyond all others. It is done for its own sake and is apparant by your lack of interest in the end product of its fulfillment or its moral standing with the rest of the world.
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What's your True Will?
Original post: Specktackular
[QUOTE=Nalyd23]But like I said, not everyone is living according to their True Will, obviously.[/QUOTE]
Does it matter? They still have True Wills... don't they?
I checked out that Dark Matter / Love thread you suggested. I've seen it before, actually. Yeah, it goes with my belief that dark matter is the Tao, pure consciousness and underlying all possible experiences, deep down everybody just wants to be loved.
[QUOTE=Nalyd23]But like I said, not everyone is living according to their True Will, obviously.[/QUOTE]
Does it matter? They still have True Wills... don't they?
I checked out that Dark Matter / Love thread you suggested. I've seen it before, actually. Yeah, it goes with my belief that dark matter is the Tao, pure consciousness and underlying all possible experiences, deep down everybody just wants to be loved.
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What's your True Will?
Original post: Specktackular
[QUOTE=KCh]Have you ever been on the internet and someone made a comment and gave a link that you just couldn't resist looking at? And once you did you couldn't get away from finding out as much as possible about it?
Have you ever saw a person about in the world and felt such an attraction to them that you found it practically impossible to turn away or not engage in conversation?
True Will is Pure Will. True Will is experiencing something like the above and acting on it without hesitation. Its finding the direction which is truly meant for you in a sense. It is always apparant, but it is also somewhat fleeting and far between.
It is a Love like no other and beyond all others. It is done for its own sake and is apparant by your lack of interest in the end product of its fulfillment or its moral standing with the rest of the world.[/QUOTE]
I like that answer. I can mull that over for a long time and perhaps find my own True Will (probably not) just by thinking along these lines.
[QUOTE=KCh]Have you ever been on the internet and someone made a comment and gave a link that you just couldn't resist looking at? And once you did you couldn't get away from finding out as much as possible about it?
Have you ever saw a person about in the world and felt such an attraction to them that you found it practically impossible to turn away or not engage in conversation?
True Will is Pure Will. True Will is experiencing something like the above and acting on it without hesitation. Its finding the direction which is truly meant for you in a sense. It is always apparant, but it is also somewhat fleeting and far between.
It is a Love like no other and beyond all others. It is done for its own sake and is apparant by your lack of interest in the end product of its fulfillment or its moral standing with the rest of the world.[/QUOTE]
I like that answer. I can mull that over for a long time and perhaps find my own True Will (probably not) just by thinking along these lines.
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What's your True Will?
Original post: Specktackular
[quote=""Nalyd23""]
But like I said, not everyone is living according to their True Will, obviously.
[/quote]
Oh, is what you're saying that until you've FOUND your True Will, you actually don't have a True Will? I thought your Higher Self knew your True Will and it was just up to you to realize it, which gave me the impression that it was there all along. So, unless being trampled was someone's True Will (which I doubt anyone would find to be true after meeting their HGA and all that), then trampling someone would interfere with their True Will, I'm sure.
[quote=""Nalyd23""]
But like I said, not everyone is living according to their True Will, obviously.
[/quote]
Oh, is what you're saying that until you've FOUND your True Will, you actually don't have a True Will? I thought your Higher Self knew your True Will and it was just up to you to realize it, which gave me the impression that it was there all along. So, unless being trampled was someone's True Will (which I doubt anyone would find to be true after meeting their HGA and all that), then trampling someone would interfere with their True Will, I'm sure.
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What's your True Will?
Original post: KCh
After reading my answer a bit more, it was actually pretty poor! My analogies can be too easily mis-construed. True Will is something more than passion, it is something above it I think.
My example can be seen as a description from one who is still looking for the True Will, I have not discovered such so I make my Will towards the practices of Magick in order to discover this 'other' Will. I make no claim that my answer is satisfactory at all for myself and it shouldn't be for anyone else.
I don't know if you meant your comment in jest or not S., but I urge you not to think to hard on it!
After reading my answer a bit more, it was actually pretty poor! My analogies can be too easily mis-construed. True Will is something more than passion, it is something above it I think.
My example can be seen as a description from one who is still looking for the True Will, I have not discovered such so I make my Will towards the practices of Magick in order to discover this 'other' Will. I make no claim that my answer is satisfactory at all for myself and it shouldn't be for anyone else.
I don't know if you meant your comment in jest or not S., but I urge you not to think to hard on it!
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What's your True Will?
Original post: I AM
Since we are discussing True Will and it was Crowley who first identified the term I thought the following Theorems from Crowley would assist in the conversation. I think Crowley is clear about the relationship of True Will and Individual Will in a person's life.
III) THEOREMS. Magick in Theory and Practice by Aleister Crowley
4. The first requisite for causing any change is thorough qualitative and quantitative understanding of the conditions.
(Illustration: The most common cause of failure in life is ignorance of oneâ??s own True Will, or of the means to fulfill that Will. A man may fancy himself a painter, and waste his life trying to become one; or he may really be a painter, and yet fail to understand and to measure the difficulties peculiar to that career.)
8. A Man whose conscious will is at odds with his True Will is wasting his strength. He cannot hope to influence his environment efficiently.
(Illustration: When Civil War rages in a nation, it is in no condition to undertake the invasion of other countries. A man with cancer employs his nourishment alike to his own use and to that of the enemy which is part of himself. He soon fails to resist the pressure of his environment. In practical life, a man who is doing what his conscience tells him to be wrong will do it very clumsily. At first!)
9. A Man who is doing his True Will has the inertia of the Universe to assist him.
(Illustration: The first principle of success in evolution is that the individual should be true to his own nature, and at the same time adapt himself to his environment.)
14. Man is capable of being, and using, anything which he perceives, for everything which he perceives is in a certain sense a part of his being. He may thus subjugate the whole of the Universe of which he is conscious to his individual Will.
(Illustration: Man has used the idea of God to dictate his personal conduct, to obtain power over his fellows, to excuse his crimes, and for innumerable other purposes, including that of realizing himself as God. He has used the irrational and unreal conceptions of mathematics to help him in the construction of mechanical devices. He has used his moral force to influence the actions even of wild animals. He has employed poetic genius for political purposes.)
24. Every man has an indefeasible right to be what he is.
(Illustration: To insist that any one else should comply with oneâ??s own standards is to outrage, not only him, but oneself, since both parties are equally born of necessity.)
25. Every man must do Magick each time he acts or even thinks, since a thought is an internal act whose influence ultimately affects action, though it may not do so at the time.
(Illustration: The least gesture causes a change in a manâ??s own body and in the air around him; it disturbs the balance of the entire Universe, and its effects continue eternally throughout all space. Every thought, however swiftly suppressed, has its effect on the mind. It stands as one of the causes of every subsequent thought, and tends to influence every subsequent action. A golfer may lose a few yards on his drive, a few more with his second and third, he may lie on the green six bare inches too far from the hole, but the net result of these trifling mishaps is the difference between halving and losing the hole.)
26. Every man has a right, the right of self preservation, to fulfill himself to the utmost. Men of â??criminal natureâ?Â
Since we are discussing True Will and it was Crowley who first identified the term I thought the following Theorems from Crowley would assist in the conversation. I think Crowley is clear about the relationship of True Will and Individual Will in a person's life.
III) THEOREMS. Magick in Theory and Practice by Aleister Crowley
4. The first requisite for causing any change is thorough qualitative and quantitative understanding of the conditions.
(Illustration: The most common cause of failure in life is ignorance of oneâ??s own True Will, or of the means to fulfill that Will. A man may fancy himself a painter, and waste his life trying to become one; or he may really be a painter, and yet fail to understand and to measure the difficulties peculiar to that career.)
8. A Man whose conscious will is at odds with his True Will is wasting his strength. He cannot hope to influence his environment efficiently.
(Illustration: When Civil War rages in a nation, it is in no condition to undertake the invasion of other countries. A man with cancer employs his nourishment alike to his own use and to that of the enemy which is part of himself. He soon fails to resist the pressure of his environment. In practical life, a man who is doing what his conscience tells him to be wrong will do it very clumsily. At first!)
9. A Man who is doing his True Will has the inertia of the Universe to assist him.
(Illustration: The first principle of success in evolution is that the individual should be true to his own nature, and at the same time adapt himself to his environment.)
14. Man is capable of being, and using, anything which he perceives, for everything which he perceives is in a certain sense a part of his being. He may thus subjugate the whole of the Universe of which he is conscious to his individual Will.
(Illustration: Man has used the idea of God to dictate his personal conduct, to obtain power over his fellows, to excuse his crimes, and for innumerable other purposes, including that of realizing himself as God. He has used the irrational and unreal conceptions of mathematics to help him in the construction of mechanical devices. He has used his moral force to influence the actions even of wild animals. He has employed poetic genius for political purposes.)
24. Every man has an indefeasible right to be what he is.
(Illustration: To insist that any one else should comply with oneâ??s own standards is to outrage, not only him, but oneself, since both parties are equally born of necessity.)
25. Every man must do Magick each time he acts or even thinks, since a thought is an internal act whose influence ultimately affects action, though it may not do so at the time.
(Illustration: The least gesture causes a change in a manâ??s own body and in the air around him; it disturbs the balance of the entire Universe, and its effects continue eternally throughout all space. Every thought, however swiftly suppressed, has its effect on the mind. It stands as one of the causes of every subsequent thought, and tends to influence every subsequent action. A golfer may lose a few yards on his drive, a few more with his second and third, he may lie on the green six bare inches too far from the hole, but the net result of these trifling mishaps is the difference between halving and losing the hole.)
26. Every man has a right, the right of self preservation, to fulfill himself to the utmost. Men of â??criminal natureâ?Â
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What's your True Will?
Original post: Specktackular
[QUOTE=KCh]
I don't know if you meant your comment in jest or not S., but I urge you not to think to hard on it![/QUOTE]
No, I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I appreciate your answers always! We've been talking about pretty darn abstract stuff on OF, but it is obvious that your answers are more like Picasso than Pollock, rather like the way Dion Fortune expresses abstract concepts. That is a compliment.
[QUOTE=KCh]
I don't know if you meant your comment in jest or not S., but I urge you not to think to hard on it![/QUOTE]
No, I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I appreciate your answers always! We've been talking about pretty darn abstract stuff on OF, but it is obvious that your answers are more like Picasso than Pollock, rather like the way Dion Fortune expresses abstract concepts. That is a compliment.
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What's your True Will?
Original post: Specktackular
I AM, thank you. I am going to take time with reading and pondering your response a little later. I am just checking in now for a quick look-see. Your post obviously looks like it will be helpful when I have more time. Thanks again!
I AM, thank you. I am going to take time with reading and pondering your response a little later. I am just checking in now for a quick look-see. Your post obviously looks like it will be helpful when I have more time. Thanks again!
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What's your True Will?
Original post: Specktackular
[quote=""I AM""]28. Every man has a right to fulfill his own will without being afraid that it may interfere with that of others; for if he is in his proper place, it is the fault of others if they interfere with him.
(Illustration: If a man like Napoleon were actually appointed by destiny to control Europe, he should not be blamed for exercising his rights. To oppose him would be an error. Any one so doing would have made a mistake as to his own destiny, except insofar as it mught be necessary for him to learn the lessons of defeat. The sun moves in space without interference. the order of nature provides an orbit for each star. A clash proves that one or the other has strayed from its course. But as to each man that keeps his true course, the more firmly he acts, the less likely others are to get in his way. His example will helpthem to find their own paths and pursue them. Every man that becomes a Magician helps others to do likewise. The more firmly and surely men move, and the more such action is accepted as the standard of morality, the less will conflict and confusion
hamper humanity.)[/quote]
This issue of destiny is a bit muddle-headed, isn't it? Is destiny a decision-maker? Is destiny mind? What IS destiny? Why would opposing Napolean be an error? Perhaps it is the opposer's destiny to overthrow Napolean, rather than to learn the lessons of defeat.
[quote=""I AM""]28. Every man has a right to fulfill his own will without being afraid that it may interfere with that of others; for if he is in his proper place, it is the fault of others if they interfere with him.
(Illustration: If a man like Napoleon were actually appointed by destiny to control Europe, he should not be blamed for exercising his rights. To oppose him would be an error. Any one so doing would have made a mistake as to his own destiny, except insofar as it mught be necessary for him to learn the lessons of defeat. The sun moves in space without interference. the order of nature provides an orbit for each star. A clash proves that one or the other has strayed from its course. But as to each man that keeps his true course, the more firmly he acts, the less likely others are to get in his way. His example will helpthem to find their own paths and pursue them. Every man that becomes a Magician helps others to do likewise. The more firmly and surely men move, and the more such action is accepted as the standard of morality, the less will conflict and confusion
hamper humanity.)[/quote]
This issue of destiny is a bit muddle-headed, isn't it? Is destiny a decision-maker? Is destiny mind? What IS destiny? Why would opposing Napolean be an error? Perhaps it is the opposer's destiny to overthrow Napolean, rather than to learn the lessons of defeat.
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What's your True Will?
Original post: KCh
Destiny itself is nothing more than what actually comes to be. If an actual change is caused in our enviroment then that was Destiny. It means it was always meant to happen since the begining of our existance.(If there ever was one)
I don't know how much sense that makes. Probably none.
I urge a lot of people to read 'Science and the Infinite' by Sidney Kline. I cannot say enough about this essay. It can really help to give you a neat perspective on this idea of Destiny.
Destiny itself is nothing more than what actually comes to be. If an actual change is caused in our enviroment then that was Destiny. It means it was always meant to happen since the begining of our existance.(If there ever was one)
I don't know how much sense that makes. Probably none.
I urge a lot of people to read 'Science and the Infinite' by Sidney Kline. I cannot say enough about this essay. It can really help to give you a neat perspective on this idea of Destiny.
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What's your True Will?
Original post: m1thr0s
True Will cannot be fathomed save only by the True Self Itself.
So the Masters teach Know Thyself.
True Will cannot be obtained whilst Dispersion rules the roost.
So the Masters teach Slay Thyself.
True Will cannot be harnessed in the Shadow of Division.
So the Masters teach Make No Distinction between Thyself and any other Thing.
Thus by Knowing and by Slaying and by Making no Distinction between Thyself and any other Thing...
True Will at length is Won...
One may begin by asking the question which to be answered must be Accomplished (= Had).
feeling poetic...must be the wine...
m1thr0s
True Will cannot be fathomed save only by the True Self Itself.
So the Masters teach Know Thyself.
True Will cannot be obtained whilst Dispersion rules the roost.
So the Masters teach Slay Thyself.
True Will cannot be harnessed in the Shadow of Division.
So the Masters teach Make No Distinction between Thyself and any other Thing.
Thus by Knowing and by Slaying and by Making no Distinction between Thyself and any other Thing...
True Will at length is Won...
One may begin by asking the question which to be answered must be Accomplished (= Had).
feeling poetic...must be the wine...
m1thr0s
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What's your True Will?
Original post: callum
my fluff bunny response; true will is your unique dance to the rhythms of life... and it does get pretty messy on the dancefloor sometimes.
my fluff bunny response; true will is your unique dance to the rhythms of life... and it does get pretty messy on the dancefloor sometimes.
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What's your True Will?
Original post: fiat_lux_777
[QUOTE=Specktackular]I always thought that your True Will would be in harmony with cosmic law, basically the Golden Rule in all situations.
This came from the realization that negative personality traits stem from lack of understanding about one's relationship to his environment due to the narrow focus of the individual. "The older, the wiser" and all that.
The True Will of the cosmos, however, is to allow personal freedom to the fullest extent possible. If a person wants to be a jerk, he can, but someone will most likely want to be a jerk right back.
The Great Work ultimately refers to refinement of the self, I think. Since various occultists have differing dispositions, I take it True Will is more relative than the Golden Rule and perhaps even changes over the course of a single lifetime. In any case, your True Will is the True Will of the cosmos, which preserves your right to personal freedom. Put another way, the Tao supports all.
Also, is it a Great Secret? If I discovered my True Will, why not tell the whole world?
C'mon... you can tell me.[/QUOTE]
93
Each person's experience of True Will (as opposed to will) will be different, because each of us is different (yet one - paradox, eh?). True Will can be something as simple as being a great accountant, or as difficult as birthing a new religion. It is what you were born to do. I always liked the quote that says True Will is destiny transmuted into a form which allows you an active role in your existence. It implies choice, purpose and responsibility.
True Will is intimately tied to the concepts of "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" and "Love is the law, love under will." The first statement urges us to follow the course of True Will (under the auspices of "God" - the "thou" or ateh of the statement), the second reminds us that love is necessary in accomplishing our True Will - not "regular" romantic love, but pure love (ermmm - "Bhakti" love) and that doing our True Will is an act of love for humanity, the cosmos and your deity.
Let us not forget that True Will cannot (and should not) be comparable or qualitative - no matter how mundane or esoteric *your* True Will may be, it is no more or less important than anyone else's - after all, every man and woman is a star, not just a select few! Of course, the sad fact is that very few people realise this......
93 93/93
Todd
[QUOTE=Specktackular]I always thought that your True Will would be in harmony with cosmic law, basically the Golden Rule in all situations.
This came from the realization that negative personality traits stem from lack of understanding about one's relationship to his environment due to the narrow focus of the individual. "The older, the wiser" and all that.
The True Will of the cosmos, however, is to allow personal freedom to the fullest extent possible. If a person wants to be a jerk, he can, but someone will most likely want to be a jerk right back.
The Great Work ultimately refers to refinement of the self, I think. Since various occultists have differing dispositions, I take it True Will is more relative than the Golden Rule and perhaps even changes over the course of a single lifetime. In any case, your True Will is the True Will of the cosmos, which preserves your right to personal freedom. Put another way, the Tao supports all.
Also, is it a Great Secret? If I discovered my True Will, why not tell the whole world?
C'mon... you can tell me.[/QUOTE]
93
Each person's experience of True Will (as opposed to will) will be different, because each of us is different (yet one - paradox, eh?). True Will can be something as simple as being a great accountant, or as difficult as birthing a new religion. It is what you were born to do. I always liked the quote that says True Will is destiny transmuted into a form which allows you an active role in your existence. It implies choice, purpose and responsibility.
True Will is intimately tied to the concepts of "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" and "Love is the law, love under will." The first statement urges us to follow the course of True Will (under the auspices of "God" - the "thou" or ateh of the statement), the second reminds us that love is necessary in accomplishing our True Will - not "regular" romantic love, but pure love (ermmm - "Bhakti" love) and that doing our True Will is an act of love for humanity, the cosmos and your deity.
Let us not forget that True Will cannot (and should not) be comparable or qualitative - no matter how mundane or esoteric *your* True Will may be, it is no more or less important than anyone else's - after all, every man and woman is a star, not just a select few! Of course, the sad fact is that very few people realise this......
93 93/93
Todd
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What's your True Will?
Original post: Specktackular
Well, I'm glad we cleared that up. To me, when all is said and done, it still seems like Crowley has always been saying "do whatever you want," the only difference perhaps being that he is advising you to make sure you REALLY want to do it and shouldn't waste your time flitting from thing to thing aimlessly.
Well, I'm glad we cleared that up. To me, when all is said and done, it still seems like Crowley has always been saying "do whatever you want," the only difference perhaps being that he is advising you to make sure you REALLY want to do it and shouldn't waste your time flitting from thing to thing aimlessly.
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What's your True Will?
Original post: Fr. Qim
[QUOTE=Specktackular]Well, I'm glad we cleared that up. To me, when all is said and done, it still seems like Crowley has always been saying "do whatever you want," .[/QUOTE]Absolutely, positivly, unexcusably NO! I realize that you had a couple more lines there, and I'm not trying to be overly harsh, but I want to be very very clear on this point, even with the other lines that I cut out of the quote, the answer is still no.
I'd be happy to elaborate further but I'm not sure how conversent you are with some of the base concepts. How much Thelemic reading have you done? What texts are you familiar with?
[QUOTE=Specktackular]Well, I'm glad we cleared that up. To me, when all is said and done, it still seems like Crowley has always been saying "do whatever you want," .[/QUOTE]Absolutely, positivly, unexcusably NO! I realize that you had a couple more lines there, and I'm not trying to be overly harsh, but I want to be very very clear on this point, even with the other lines that I cut out of the quote, the answer is still no.
I'd be happy to elaborate further but I'm not sure how conversent you are with some of the base concepts. How much Thelemic reading have you done? What texts are you familiar with?
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What's your True Will?
Original post: Specktackular
[QUOTE=Fr. Qim]I'd be happy to elaborate further but I'm not sure how conversent you are with some of the base concepts. How much Thelemic reading have you done? What texts are you familiar with?[/QUOTE]
I've read Book 4, Magick In Theory & Practice, Magick Without Tears, Commentaries on The Holy Books, The Book of The Law, The Magick of Aleister Crowley (Duquette) and 777 since 1992-ish.
I wish you would elaborate further because I am seriously interested!
[QUOTE=Fr. Qim]I'd be happy to elaborate further but I'm not sure how conversent you are with some of the base concepts. How much Thelemic reading have you done? What texts are you familiar with?[/QUOTE]
I've read Book 4, Magick In Theory & Practice, Magick Without Tears, Commentaries on The Holy Books, The Book of The Law, The Magick of Aleister Crowley (Duquette) and 777 since 1992-ish.
I wish you would elaborate further because I am seriously interested!
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What's your True Will?
Original post: pAmphAge
My true will is to live as closely as possible to part 3 of the book of the law (interpreted as a how to conquer the opposite sex manual of course), while at the same time trying to find a perfect soulmate--one that most embodies part one of the book of the law...nuith. It hasn't made for easy love affairs with two such opposing forces, but i'm working to intermingle them around my staff as best as I possibly can.
pAmphAge
My true will is to live as closely as possible to part 3 of the book of the law (interpreted as a how to conquer the opposite sex manual of course), while at the same time trying to find a perfect soulmate--one that most embodies part one of the book of the law...nuith. It hasn't made for easy love affairs with two such opposing forces, but i'm working to intermingle them around my staff as best as I possibly can.
pAmphAge