sigil charging in CM

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Grab

(I asked something similar pre-hack, and I thought I'd ask again, now being IMHO 100x more experienced.)

This is a thread discussing sigil charging a la Chaos Magick, within a CM/hermetic setting. I ask the advice of the experienced magicians, either people experienced in CM who know something about Chaos sigils - or reasonably experienced Chaos practitioners who knows a bit of CM.

This is NOT a thread about Talisman loading. However, in the event that these two overlap, I certainly welcome such comparisons!

This is how I think that this should be done.
* create your sigil or mantra using standard chaos techniques
* banish using standard GD/OTO methods
* raise energy using method X
* charge the sigil
* banish
I suggest, if I may, that we discuss the energy raising step and the charge step.

Any takers?

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Grab

I should add a few things from the pre-hack thread, perhaps.

There was some discussion about talisman loading, which I will omit here.

fiat_lux_777 suggested this link http://www.jwmt.org/v1n2/spare.html which is the experience of a very advanced practitioner - still above me in so many ways, though his Middle Pillar thing might prove useful.

I AM, profound as always, provided this suggestion "First we create a thought form. Against this thought form we apply focused intent. We then direct our Will through our focused intent into the thought form. If done properly, these actions will manifest in both the Astral and Physical if that is our desire. Thus is a magickal act performed. " He further suggested avoiding shortcuts early in the practice of magick.

Master of the Abyss had some good points about rituals being means of reaching gnosis. One techinque he suggested was to perform a very very slow qabalastic cross.

I got all this from the google archive of page 1 of the thread, but I don't know how to dig up page 2 (of 2).

/Grab

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Karcist

Speaking for myself...my sigil charging endeavors tend to fall into two categories:

1. Quick and dirty
2. More formalized and elaborate.

For "quick and dirty" charging, I tend to use the staring-at-something-intently-while-masturbating method. The sexual activity raises energy, the sigil becomes "charged" when I orgasm and I "seal" it with the resultant bodily fluid. (I believe most of us here are familiar with this method.) I also use variations on this technique utilizing yogic breathing to raise energy and either menstrual blood or a cut on my finger to "charge."

For my more elaborate workings, I will use a variation on standard evocatory techniques and talisman charging. Essentially, I place the sigil in the triangle and I'll begin a "standard" (for me, anyway) evocation using the Bornless Ritual. The goal is to create a thoughtform beforehand and bind the thoughtform to the physical sigil in the triangle and to the intent of the sigil. Most often than not, I will draw the sigil on an egg and place the egg outside when my ritual is done for other animals to devour.


Karcist

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: palindroem

Karcist (and I AM i guess), in the thought-form approach . . . isn't that the same basic thing as servitor creation?

Karcist, you seem to be equating menstrual blood's purpose to the "cut" value of blood. I'm not questioning. I had always considered the cut method particularly effective due to the value (in part) of the pain . . . equating it more to masterbation-type energy. (or being a guy, am I missing the painful concept of menstrual blood )
Again, not being critical . . . just exploring others approaches.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Nero

[QUOTE=Grab]

This is how I think that this should be done.
* create your sigil or mantra using standard chaos techniques
* banish using standard GD/OTO methods
* raise energy using method X
* charge the sigil
* banish
I suggest, if I may, that we discuss the energy raising step and the charge step.

Any takers?[/QUOTE]
Here is a method I use. I am unsure if it is common but it just seems the natural way to do it for me.

To raise energy I use a very slow and steady MP. Making sure to spend plenty of time on each vibration building the energy. I then take this energy and concentrate it through Tiphareth calling upon my higher self. Sometimes I do an additional slow and steady QC as well to further refine the concentration of divine energy. Then I just simply pour this energy through Tiphareth and/or arms into the sigil. So far I have had good results from this method. Just my two cents...

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Grab

Excellent Nero! Are the sigils then disposable, or do you keep them as a sort of talisman?

In fact, this is an example where chaos sigil charging seems to overlap slightly with talisman loading a la GD rituals, where both a) your personal energy and b) that of various entities are used to load the thing. The a-part is of course the part similar to your technique.

Thank you!

/Grab

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: fiat_lux_777

[QUOTE=Grab]I suggest, if I may, that we discuss the energy raising step and the charge step. Any takers?[/QUOTE]
93

At the risk of being overly straightforward, the simplest manner to raise energy and charge a talisman (esp. sigils a la Spare/Chaos) is to hold the sigil image in mind whilst performing a five-knuckle shuffle, and anointing the talisman with the charged fluid.

93 93/93

Todd

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Frater Manjet

As this is the CM version of this topic I will give a personal example.

Solar Motto Talisman:

...This amulet/talisman was created in dedication to my new solar motto. My intent was to bring myself into greater harmony and influence with Sol.

Construction.

...Sculpy formed into a disc aproximately 3" in diameter and 1/8" thick.
...Painted in acrylic Cadmium Yellow Light.
...Black india ink for various inscriptions and sigils.

Inscriptions.

...( creating image to be inserted later )

...I painted and inscribed this talisman on the last equinox. I used the solar hours spent in dedication, meditation and devotion. ( LVX, Liber Resh/ Kephera Nu Ra etc.. )

...I plan to continue with weekly dedications until the final week before next equinox. I will spend that week in deep workings culminating in a final cerimony on the next equinox.

- VVV

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: palindroem

Nice Manjet . . . a six month dedication/charging (consecration), wow . . . that will be impressive.

has anyone used sculpy clay with the excitory/fluid method of charging . . . how does it . . . umm, hold up?


(I'm glad to see your monitor is lasting . . . I have a spare . . . ?)

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Grab

Frater Nanjet) Please explain the relationship between the interesting things that you wrote about your CM-talisman on one hand, and charging of chaos-type of sigils on the other hand. Chaos type of sigils to my understanding are disposable, that is, immediately after you charge them, you tear them apart and flush them down. Therefore, I fail to see the connection to your type of permanent magickal object (if I may call it so). Sorry for my ignorance.

fiat_lux_777) Interesting. Do you recommend still including the other steps (banish, etc) or can you just do it anytime? Also, do you dispose of the sigil after "annointing it"? (My guess is no, as you referred to it as a talisman).

Thanks
/Grab

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Nero

[QUOTE=Grab]Excellent Nero! Are the sigils then disposable, or do you keep them as a sort of talisman?
[/QUOTE]It really depends on what I am using it for. Mostly I just put them in my wallet to keep them on me at all times, until I get the result I want (or realize that it is not going to work :???: ), then I burn them.

Some of my first books on magick where chaos flavored then later as I got into the GD system I added what I know.

BTW I forgot to mention if I need elemental energy for some reason, such as using air for a mental sigil, I will throw in a invoking pentagram ritual as well.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Nero

Here is a nice article about sigil creation and CM.

http://www.jwmt.org/v1n2/spare.html


EDIT: sorry I just realized it is the same article from above. :oops:

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Grab

Nero) I have some further questions. Do you use the MP standalone for sigil charging, or with other rituals?

For anyone, which is the best sequence of:
banish SIRP MP CBL charge banish
or
banish MP CBL charge banish
or
banish MP CBL SIRP charge banish?

That is, how does the SIRP affect the power of the MP? And does it have any particular value for charging sigils?

/Grab

EDIT: CBL means Circulation of the Body of Light

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Nero

[QUOTE=Grab]Nero) I have some further questions. Do you use the MP standalone for sigil charging, or with other rituals?
[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what you are asking? Can you rephase the question?

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Grab

[QUOTE=Nero]I'm not sure what you are asking? Can you rephase the question?[/QUOTE]
Certainly. I'm wondering if you do banishin rituals and similar before the Middle Pillar, and the Circulation of the Body of Light after the Middle Pillar, before charging the sigil. Or if you just do the MP standalone, and then charge.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Nero

[QUOTE=Grab]Certainly. I'm wondering if you do banishin rituals and similar before the Middle Pillar, and the Circulation of the Body of Light after the Middle Pillar, before charging the sigil. Or if you just do the MP standalone, and then charge.[/QUOTE]
Ahhh got you. Yes I always open and close with a banishing. It is a good practice to clean the area when you start with any work. Closing with a banishing is not really necesary for something like this, but it is good habit and couldn't hurt.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: I AM

I am going to answer this question by sharing my experience not only with Sigils but also with Talismans, Wards, and Amulets. The techniques and insights that I share have been developed with actual experience.


Since I am discussing multiple items I will provide MY definition for each.

1. Sigils. A statement, in the form of a symbol, of a specific Magickal INTENT empowered by the Magickian.
2. Amulet. An item WORN (almost always a necklace) that is a statement, in the form of a symbol or multiple symbols, of a specific Magickal INTENT empowered by the Magickian.
3. Talisman. An item CARRIED OR OWNED that is a statement, in the form of a symbol or multiple symbols, of Magickal INTENT empowered by the Magickian.
4. Ward. A written group of symbols or Astral CASTING that is a statement, in the form of a symbol or multiple symbols, of a specific Magickal INTENT empowered by the Magickian.

With all of these items, once empowered, always empowered. More on this later.

First, I have found that the terms Wards, Talismans and Amulets can and should be used in the same breath as Sigils. It has been my learning that they are ALL SIMILAR just used in different ways and that the methods of construction and empowerment are also similar. In each of these their creation is usually to accomplish a singular intent and their method of action is actually almost identical.

Second, I think that when constructing Wards, Talismans, Sigils, or Amulets we need to understand that we are actually constructing "Circuit Boards". These Circuit Boards follow certain design principles and the mere fact that they are PERSONALLY created by the Magickian gives them power. However, they also need to be EMPOWERED to be most effective. This empowerment is usually a PERSONAL Magickal empowerment performed by the Magickian but can also involve outside forces.

As a continuation of the above statement, a Magickian can also ask an Entity to empower the Ward, Talisman, Sigil, or Amulets with GREAT EFFECT. Creations that are empowered in this way often are VERY powerful and this technique is very effective for Magickians when they are new to the path. It is CRITICAL that the Entity chosen for this work correspond with the INTENT of the Ward, Talisman, Sigil, or Amulet. As a very BASE example, you do not want to use a Lunar associated Entity to empower a Solar working UNLESS that is a specific intent of your working. The reason this is critical is because the Magickian, at some level, UNDERSTANDS that these Entities have different aspects and correspondences and many times they conflict with each other. It is also important to understand that the finished working contains the empowerment of BOTH the Entity and the Magickian.

Third, the design of the Sigil, Ward, Amulet, or Talisman is meaningless unless empowered. If a Magickian understands the Magick behind the creation of these magickal items then that Magickian also understands that the chosen design is only a reflection of the Magickian's INTENT. To put it in simpler terms, a Sigil can be a straight line and that same identical straight line could be used in multiple Sigils. It is not the design, it is the EMPOWERED INTENT that is at work in a Sigil, Amulet, Ward, or Talisman.

The mere fact that the Sigil is hand drawn provides it with some personal power. When we meditate on a Sigil we are also providing it with personal power. When we focus SPECIFIC INTENT on a Sigil we are providing it with the Magickian's Magickal creative power. In each of these actions a Magickian's INTENT is being focused on the Sigil and through this act, empowering the Sigil. However, to create a truly effective Sigil much more is needed.

The reason that most Magickians use different designs for their working is to SEPERATE their INTENT from one design to the next. If one used a straight line for all their Sigils and were unable to COMPLETELY remove previous intents from the working then the working would be corrupted. It is this inability to remove previous intent that forces many Magickians to create different designs for different purposes. The method used to derive the design of the Sigil or the Sigil generator used is, for this reason, unimportant except that it assists the Magickian in the separation of INTENT.

Our Circuit Boards are generally more powerful if we add more levels of empowerment. Sigils, Wards, Talismans and Amulets that are empowered multiple times, OVER time, are more powerful than those that are just charged once. Each level of empowerment MUST compliment the other levels and each level of empowerment MUST flow into the next without breaks in effect or intent. The circuit must flow without obstruction. As an example, you would not want to have one level promote healing, the next wealth, and the next healing. The energies and YOUR INTENT must flow without deviation. In this way the Magickian is able to construct the most effective Ward, Talisman, Sigil, or Amulet.

How does this correspond to the Chaos method of charging and then forgetting the act? Well, it probably does not directly, but it does indirectly. I have never found that forgetting the act was necessary or important. In fact, reinforcing the act by multiple chargings increases the power of the working in my experience. That said, it IS important to KNOW that the working will be effective as this removes doubt. It is this removal of doubt that I think is at the root of the Chaotic Magickian's â??forgettingâ?Â

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: 1000ShadesofGrey

Thanks I AM.

Magnificent explanation, as usual.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Grab

Indeed excellent. Thank you, I AM.

[QUOTE=I AM]If successful, the Magickian can â??seeâ?Â

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: I AM

[QUOTE=Grab]Indeed excellent. Thank you, I AM.

There is only a little technical question. When doing the banishing, how do I protect the sigil/talisman/etc, so that I do not banish away all the power from it? I've read that only silk would protect it, but other sources say cotton is fine.

Myself, I'm thinking that my intent of banishing everything except the sigil might be enough, however, that might be optimistic. The banishing rituals ARE powerful.

Finally, after 10 months of pondering that since you wrote it the first time, I now understand what you meant, due to this elaboration. Thanks!


/Grab
[/QUOTE] Please allow me to repond in detail to the banishing question within the next two or three days. I have medical appointments today.

I will say that is was not my intention to have you wait for ten months to understand what I said. While I often answer in a way so that the magickian can learn for themselves I do not intend to confuse any member. Nor is it my intention to frustrate a member by giving too cryptic an answer. I wish you had asked my friend. I would have answered.

Humbly, I AM

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: I AM

[QUOTE=Grab]Indeed excellent. Thank you, I AM.

There is only a little technical question. When doing the banishing, how do I protect the sigil/talisman/etc, so that I do not banish away all the power from it?

I've read that only silk would protect it, but other sources say cotton is fine.

Myself, I'm thinking that my intent of banishing everything except the sigil might be enough, however, that might be optimistic. The banishing rituals ARE powerful.

/Grab
[/QUOTE]While this may seem to be a "little" technical question it is not. It is not even just one question! However I will address the questions and answer them based on my own experience. My response will run counter to what others have said or practice and for that I apologize and say that I mean no disrespect to any path or the beliefs of that path.

The questions that I gather from this â??littleâ?Â

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: I AM

I will also add that I use INTENT and WILL as two separate terms in the above post. In my practice my INTENT and WILL are the same. If I INTEND it is also my Magickal WILL to do so. I focus my Magickal Will and my Intent is my Will.

Humbly, I AM

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: fiat_lux_777

93

Dear I AM,

As usual, a most informative and well-constructed post. For what it's worth, I agree entirely.

93 93/93

Todd

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: palindroem

I AM, I'm not questioning your explaination or the real truths of it. But only asking in order to provide an opportunity for clarification.
(note)

Why do many of the older time magicians and order material (A.C., I.R. and HOGD) indicate that banishing Can and Will disrupt or even remove energies from ritual tools, unintentionally?

(just asking, not aurguing)

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: I AM

[QUOTE=palindroem]I AM, I'm not questioning your explaination or the real truths of it. But only asking in order to provide an opportunity for clarification.
(note)

Why do many of the older time magicians and order material (A.C., I.R. and HOGD) indicate that banishing Can and Will disrupt or even remove energies from ritual tools, unintentionally?

(just asking, not aurguing)[/QUOTE]
Hey my friend!

I am feeling poorly at this time. Let me answer this over the weekend if that is alright. I just wanted to let you know that I was not ignoring you.

Humbly, I AM