Original post: darthryan
Hello,
I recently ordered Bardon's IIH and Kraig's Modern Magick, and they should be here tomorrow. Should I get my feet wet with Kraig first before I move onto Bardon? I have read warnings from people saying that I should stay away from everything before moving onto Bardon because I may have to unlearn. Could I just try and keep up with them both at the same time? Any suggestions?
Ryan
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Original post: Specktackular
If you start with Bardon's IIH, there is a good chance you will never finish his system and never start doing magick. By reading what he expects and comparing it to what you are capable of, you will feel that you are making no progress. My advice is to compare the two and see the big difference.
I just got a new book called "The New Hermetics" by Jason Alexander Newcomb that would probably make the best introductory course for someone REALLY beginning, actually. But, Modern Magick is a great place to start, I'd say. That's probably the most thorough (and easiest) workbook I own on Ceremonial Magick.
If you start with Bardon's IIH, there is a good chance you will never finish his system and never start doing magick. By reading what he expects and comparing it to what you are capable of, you will feel that you are making no progress. My advice is to compare the two and see the big difference.
I just got a new book called "The New Hermetics" by Jason Alexander Newcomb that would probably make the best introductory course for someone REALLY beginning, actually. But, Modern Magick is a great place to start, I'd say. That's probably the most thorough (and easiest) workbook I own on Ceremonial Magick.
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Original post: bhoot
Kraig's Modern Magick is good . I like his attitude that one must experiment and question.
his writing style is also good.
But he leaves out many things that are quite vital to magick.
As a basic book his is actually the best.
Kraig's Modern Magick is good . I like his attitude that one must experiment and question.
his writing style is also good.
But he leaves out many things that are quite vital to magick.
As a basic book his is actually the best.
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Original post: Jenfucius
[QUOTE=Specktackular]If you start with Bardon's IIH, there is a good chance you will never finish his system and never start doing magick. [/QUOTE]
I have to agree with you there. I have met two people that have been doing them for decades and they dont have much to show for it.
[QUOTE=Specktackular]If you start with Bardon's IIH, there is a good chance you will never finish his system and never start doing magick. [/QUOTE]
I have to agree with you there. I have met two people that have been doing them for decades and they dont have much to show for it.
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Original post: darthryan
So it's best off to just dump IIH as a practical learning regimen? I knew it would take years but I didn't know it was that bad.
So it's best off to just dump IIH as a practical learning regimen? I knew it would take years but I didn't know it was that bad.
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Original post: YHVH
Well, everyone knows that Bardon is a bit more optimistic than he should have been, but I find statements like "you'll never end it", "you will never achieve anything of great importance" HIGHLY INACCURATE. I know of 4 people who have finished IIH completely in a span of 2-3.5 years. This is a difficult path, but one that should not be underestimated.
Well, everyone knows that Bardon is a bit more optimistic than he should have been, but I find statements like "you'll never end it", "you will never achieve anything of great importance" HIGHLY INACCURATE. I know of 4 people who have finished IIH completely in a span of 2-3.5 years. This is a difficult path, but one that should not be underestimated.
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Original post: Baphmetis
I think you can do both IIH and Kraig's system at the same time. The first steps in Bardon's system, which I am currently working on, help you in developing the mental discipline and self-criticism that is always helpful in magical practice. Although I am working on Bardon's system at the moment, I don't see why I shouldn't explore my other magical interests at the same time. And besides, his exercises don't take up that much time in your day (not in the first step anyway). I am not going to hold back from practicing ritual magic simply because I am not an "adept" yet.
I think you can do both IIH and Kraig's system at the same time. The first steps in Bardon's system, which I am currently working on, help you in developing the mental discipline and self-criticism that is always helpful in magical practice. Although I am working on Bardon's system at the moment, I don't see why I shouldn't explore my other magical interests at the same time. And besides, his exercises don't take up that much time in your day (not in the first step anyway). I am not going to hold back from practicing ritual magic simply because I am not an "adept" yet.
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Original post: palindroem
Well, I have to say. I'm working on step 4 and the idea that I can continue on with his system with an approach of spending enough time to "master" each exercise is looking more and more unlikely (I know, I've mentioned this in another thread).
Its just as each of the steps gets more complex, they appear that they'll take exponentially longer to master.
I think I could go through the whole thing in a year or so if I'm not "perfecting" each one and just giving them a good solid try, but moving on even if I can't maintain the exercise for as long as he requires.
Like others, I'm also trying to work on other magickal development (ie, kraig, yoga, daily rituals . . . ) and still wanting to have enough time to have a life.
Does Bardons system require absolute mastery or is it nearly as beneficial just to work through it with less literal emphesis?
(really, I'm not trying to be a slacker)
Well, I have to say. I'm working on step 4 and the idea that I can continue on with his system with an approach of spending enough time to "master" each exercise is looking more and more unlikely (I know, I've mentioned this in another thread).
Its just as each of the steps gets more complex, they appear that they'll take exponentially longer to master.
I think I could go through the whole thing in a year or so if I'm not "perfecting" each one and just giving them a good solid try, but moving on even if I can't maintain the exercise for as long as he requires.
Like others, I'm also trying to work on other magickal development (ie, kraig, yoga, daily rituals . . . ) and still wanting to have enough time to have a life.
Does Bardons system require absolute mastery or is it nearly as beneficial just to work through it with less literal emphesis?
(really, I'm not trying to be a slacker)
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Original post: Specktackular
[QUOTE=palindroem]
Does Bardons system require absolute mastery or is it nearly as beneficial just to work through it with less literal emphesis?
(really, I'm not trying to be a slacker)[/QUOTE]
See, that's the thing; if you listen to what Bardon actually SAYS you need to do, you're screwed. How long would it take just to be able to visualize a roomful of fire just as realistically as if the room was really filled with fire? I think he is like the person who says "literally" when he means "figuratively." With time, I'm sure you can really get a clear mind's eye image of this and "see" it with open-eyes. But, even powerful hallucinations from 6 hits of high-powered blotter acid will not look as real as staring at a real live object. I think you can use IIH well if you give it your best and take the wording a little looser than it is written... oh yeah, and don't bother brushing your entire body and cold showering for the rest of your life, either. That's just stupid.
[QUOTE=palindroem]
Does Bardons system require absolute mastery or is it nearly as beneficial just to work through it with less literal emphesis?
(really, I'm not trying to be a slacker)[/QUOTE]
See, that's the thing; if you listen to what Bardon actually SAYS you need to do, you're screwed. How long would it take just to be able to visualize a roomful of fire just as realistically as if the room was really filled with fire? I think he is like the person who says "literally" when he means "figuratively." With time, I'm sure you can really get a clear mind's eye image of this and "see" it with open-eyes. But, even powerful hallucinations from 6 hits of high-powered blotter acid will not look as real as staring at a real live object. I think you can use IIH well if you give it your best and take the wording a little looser than it is written... oh yeah, and don't bother brushing your entire body and cold showering for the rest of your life, either. That's just stupid.
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Original post: Fr.NovumOrganum
Use Kraig, as others have said, to get practicing magick right away. That is the most important thing. In a month, if you follow the program, you'll be doing the LBRP and MP, and starting to get elemental tuning. Use Bardon as a theoretic source for now. When you are more experienced at practice, you'll be able to go back and mine Bardon for things to do.
Use Kraig, as others have said, to get practicing magick right away. That is the most important thing. In a month, if you follow the program, you'll be doing the LBRP and MP, and starting to get elemental tuning. Use Bardon as a theoretic source for now. When you are more experienced at practice, you'll be able to go back and mine Bardon for things to do.
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Original post: Bazaapodeh
well this maynot be Bardon type, but i took an astral course and the techniques they give for such htings as visualization , concentration, and awareness seem to work well, . dont pay attention to their dogma the techniques are really good. its the mysticweb people..
Baz....
well this maynot be Bardon type, but i took an astral course and the techniques they give for such htings as visualization , concentration, and awareness seem to work well, . dont pay attention to their dogma the techniques are really good. its the mysticweb people..
Baz....
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Original post: Jenfucius
[QUOTE=YHVH]Well, everyone knows that Bardon is a bit more optimistic than he should have been, but I find statements like "you'll never end it", "you will never achieve anything of great importance" HIGHLY INACCURATE. I know of 4 people who have finished IIH completely in a span of 2-3.5 years. This is a difficult path, but one that should not be underestimated.[/QUOTE]From the two people I know they were into the occult for some time. One was into since the late 1950's and was a member of the Fraternity of Saturn and the other started in the 1960's. Neither are push overs to say the least. The one who was a member of the FS actually knew Bardon's secretary and use to correspond with her (I thought that was interesting). Since they starting Bardon's work many decades ago to be frank they dont have alot to show for it. I have yet to meet any magicans that can even do a quarter of what Bardon teaches in his books. Even though some have been training for years or even decades. Yet alone being able to walk through a huge blazing fire and not be burn or levitate or fly through the air or become actually physically invisible etc (even in 2-3.5 years training span). I use know two Tibetan monks and they spend quite alot of time doing meditation and yogic exercises and they have nothing to show for it either to be honest. No offense intended but I find certain claims to be rather difficult to believe in given the cases.
[QUOTE=YHVH]Well, everyone knows that Bardon is a bit more optimistic than he should have been, but I find statements like "you'll never end it", "you will never achieve anything of great importance" HIGHLY INACCURATE. I know of 4 people who have finished IIH completely in a span of 2-3.5 years. This is a difficult path, but one that should not be underestimated.[/QUOTE]From the two people I know they were into the occult for some time. One was into since the late 1950's and was a member of the Fraternity of Saturn and the other started in the 1960's. Neither are push overs to say the least. The one who was a member of the FS actually knew Bardon's secretary and use to correspond with her (I thought that was interesting). Since they starting Bardon's work many decades ago to be frank they dont have alot to show for it. I have yet to meet any magicans that can even do a quarter of what Bardon teaches in his books. Even though some have been training for years or even decades. Yet alone being able to walk through a huge blazing fire and not be burn or levitate or fly through the air or become actually physically invisible etc (even in 2-3.5 years training span). I use know two Tibetan monks and they spend quite alot of time doing meditation and yogic exercises and they have nothing to show for it either to be honest. No offense intended but I find certain claims to be rather difficult to believe in given the cases.