Original post: insert_name_here
http://www.otoaustralia.org.au/
Although I'm not THAT into Crowley, I can't seem to find an offshoot of the G.'.D.'. or anything. I don't like Masonry.
You see, I wonder what type of rituals go on.
Anyone a member of any group that would like to chare there experience or advice or anything? I think group work would be more beneficial.
Australian O.T.O
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Australian O.T.O
Original post: Master of the Abyss
Many O.T.O. groups have open meetings: celebrations of the Gnostic Mass in particular. I'm sure if you just mail the guys, they can tell you a fitting opportunity to meet up and sniff at them. And you need not be a member to just hang around with people - noone's going to bite you if you just walk in there on their next Gnostic Mass, then stick like glue. There's no reason to be afraid of the rituals: they will obviously talk everything (except initiations) over in advance for the simple reason that a freaked-out participant means a ruined ritual, and no-one wants that.
Also, you might wish to look into Australian AMORC: http://www.amorc.org.au/ . Not really magical, but there is more to them than to the Freemasons, and they're quite compatible with G.'.D.'. ideas.
You might also attempt to network, and find out more abour magical societies in your area, in Australian magical forums such as http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KaOsOvOz/ and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wyrd_crossings/ .
Many O.T.O. groups have open meetings: celebrations of the Gnostic Mass in particular. I'm sure if you just mail the guys, they can tell you a fitting opportunity to meet up and sniff at them. And you need not be a member to just hang around with people - noone's going to bite you if you just walk in there on their next Gnostic Mass, then stick like glue. There's no reason to be afraid of the rituals: they will obviously talk everything (except initiations) over in advance for the simple reason that a freaked-out participant means a ruined ritual, and no-one wants that.
Also, you might wish to look into Australian AMORC: http://www.amorc.org.au/ . Not really magical, but there is more to them than to the Freemasons, and they're quite compatible with G.'.D.'. ideas.
You might also attempt to network, and find out more abour magical societies in your area, in Australian magical forums such as http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KaOsOvOz/ and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wyrd_crossings/ .
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Original post: DeviouZ
Heh. I'm gonna be initiated into the Company of Heaven in December. Actually, I should have been initiated earlier, as in around September but I stuffed that up and didn't submit my form early enough. Nonetheless, I've met some of the guys and they're a great bunch of people, and while none I've met bar one are terribly advanced, they still are commited, have the right idea about the spiritual path, and it was fascinating to be around them. It's interesting also how well-connected and organised the OTO is around Australia, all the groups around Australia are interlinked in a sense, and they communicate quite regularly, it's not a bad community as a whole is the impression I've recieved.
Unfortunately, you yourself, like me, won't be able to participate in any group workings until you're actually a member which won't be for a while unfortunately. They also made it clear there's no way around that, they stick to the rules, which is a shame in a way I guess. But hey, they hold Open Days pretty regularly where the members meet up with others looking to join and you're perfectly free to participate in that, just give em an email and they'll get you on the right path.
Heh. I'm gonna be initiated into the Company of Heaven in December. Actually, I should have been initiated earlier, as in around September but I stuffed that up and didn't submit my form early enough. Nonetheless, I've met some of the guys and they're a great bunch of people, and while none I've met bar one are terribly advanced, they still are commited, have the right idea about the spiritual path, and it was fascinating to be around them. It's interesting also how well-connected and organised the OTO is around Australia, all the groups around Australia are interlinked in a sense, and they communicate quite regularly, it's not a bad community as a whole is the impression I've recieved.
Unfortunately, you yourself, like me, won't be able to participate in any group workings until you're actually a member which won't be for a while unfortunately. They also made it clear there's no way around that, they stick to the rules, which is a shame in a way I guess. But hey, they hold Open Days pretty regularly where the members meet up with others looking to join and you're perfectly free to participate in that, just give em an email and they'll get you on the right path.
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Original post: Fr.NovumOrganum
I'm an American member of the OTO, and from what I've seen, there's really no reason to fear the oto or its rituals. If your body is like ours, they probably have a day or more every month when the temple is open for discussion and meeting the members. Share your fears with them. Ask them questions. They'll give you honest answers. Did some bodies/individuals do bad things in the past? Sure, but there are alot lot lot of misconceptions about the oto floating around.
1. if you just take the minerval, or go for the man of earth triad, its very unlikely the caliphate or oho will have any impact on your life, in a controlling way etc, if you're worried about that.
2. local bodies are very autonomous as long as they follow the rules for degree ceremonies and masses.
3. the oto is dedicated to preserving the light of thelema. that is all a member really has to accept.
I'm an American member of the OTO, and from what I've seen, there's really no reason to fear the oto or its rituals. If your body is like ours, they probably have a day or more every month when the temple is open for discussion and meeting the members. Share your fears with them. Ask them questions. They'll give you honest answers. Did some bodies/individuals do bad things in the past? Sure, but there are alot lot lot of misconceptions about the oto floating around.
1. if you just take the minerval, or go for the man of earth triad, its very unlikely the caliphate or oho will have any impact on your life, in a controlling way etc, if you're worried about that.
2. local bodies are very autonomous as long as they follow the rules for degree ceremonies and masses.
3. the oto is dedicated to preserving the light of thelema. that is all a member really has to accept.
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Original post: fiat_lux_777
93
I would think that acceptance of Liber Al would be de rigeur for anyone wanting to join the O.T.O. (or any other Thelemic order). I don't understand your reticence towards the Masonic lodge - after all, the grade rituals of the O.T.O. are based on Masonic ceremonies......
Below are some of the organisations to which I have belonged, along with the style in which they work -
Currently an initiate of Q.B.L.H., A.A. and the Gnostic Alchemical Church - Thelemic Gnosticism and English Qaballa based. Also a Chevalier with O.M.C.E. (Rosicrucian R+C) and a member of the Red (Royal Arch) Masonic lodge.
Servants of the Light & Builders of the Adytum - great correspondence courses with meetings/ritual every so often - Qabalah and "traditional" Westery Mystery Tradition.
Ordo Phoenicus Aureii - Golden Dawn/Thelema lodge based in Sydney (now defunct, I believe).
Various Wiccan/Pagan covens (Alexandrian)
Brief associations with Order of the Left Hand Path, the Rune Guild, Clan Celtica, AMORC an dothers (LHP, Asatru, Celtic Paganism and "Rosicrucian").
I guess the obvious question is - in which tradition would you like to work?
93 93/93
Todd
93
I would think that acceptance of Liber Al would be de rigeur for anyone wanting to join the O.T.O. (or any other Thelemic order). I don't understand your reticence towards the Masonic lodge - after all, the grade rituals of the O.T.O. are based on Masonic ceremonies......
Below are some of the organisations to which I have belonged, along with the style in which they work -
Currently an initiate of Q.B.L.H., A.A. and the Gnostic Alchemical Church - Thelemic Gnosticism and English Qaballa based. Also a Chevalier with O.M.C.E. (Rosicrucian R+C) and a member of the Red (Royal Arch) Masonic lodge.
Servants of the Light & Builders of the Adytum - great correspondence courses with meetings/ritual every so often - Qabalah and "traditional" Westery Mystery Tradition.
Ordo Phoenicus Aureii - Golden Dawn/Thelema lodge based in Sydney (now defunct, I believe).
Various Wiccan/Pagan covens (Alexandrian)
Brief associations with Order of the Left Hand Path, the Rune Guild, Clan Celtica, AMORC an dothers (LHP, Asatru, Celtic Paganism and "Rosicrucian").
I guess the obvious question is - in which tradition would you like to work?
93 93/93
Todd
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Original post: DeviouZ
That's quite a number... I'm currently with Builders of the Adytum as well, I personally consider them to be the best out there. Are you still with them yourself, Fiat? I'm wondering maybe how far through the course you are, as it's quite lengthy, I'd be curious to know what input you have to make upon it yourself...
That's quite a number... I'm currently with Builders of the Adytum as well, I personally consider them to be the best out there. Are you still with them yourself, Fiat? I'm wondering maybe how far through the course you are, as it's quite lengthy, I'd be curious to know what input you have to make upon it yourself...
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Original post: fiat_lux_777
[QUOTE=DeviouZ]That's quite a number... I'm currently with Builders of the Adytum as well, I personally consider them to be the best out there. Are you still with them yourself, Fiat? I'm wondering maybe how far through the course you are, as it's quite lengthy, I'd be curious to know what input you have to make upon it yourself...[/QUOTE]
93
Those listed are spread out over a 20 years period (yeah - the maths doesn't add up...I lied about my age on my AMORC form!). I determined that I wanted to experience as many different "styles" as I could, so I could make up my mind about what suited me best. Consequently, I don't have a social life
I'm no longer with BOTA....left off a few years ago. I don't remember where I was up to - I had completed my cards....I do remember that. From memory I have two certificates, so I believe I must have completed the introductory and first courses. Although BOTA is a fine course, I determined my path lay elsewhere and moved on.
I found the great thing about BOTA is its subtlety. Here I was, colouring cards thinking I wasn't learning anything when suddenly..bam!!...I start dreaming about the current card, complete with associated correspondences. Almost like a subconscious projectioninto the cards. I learnt a lot from BOTA, but the main lesson I learned was that magick does not need to always be ceremonial, and that ritual is often an outward expression of an inner activity.
93 93/93
Todd
[QUOTE=DeviouZ]That's quite a number... I'm currently with Builders of the Adytum as well, I personally consider them to be the best out there. Are you still with them yourself, Fiat? I'm wondering maybe how far through the course you are, as it's quite lengthy, I'd be curious to know what input you have to make upon it yourself...[/QUOTE]
93
Those listed are spread out over a 20 years period (yeah - the maths doesn't add up...I lied about my age on my AMORC form!). I determined that I wanted to experience as many different "styles" as I could, so I could make up my mind about what suited me best. Consequently, I don't have a social life
I'm no longer with BOTA....left off a few years ago. I don't remember where I was up to - I had completed my cards....I do remember that. From memory I have two certificates, so I believe I must have completed the introductory and first courses. Although BOTA is a fine course, I determined my path lay elsewhere and moved on.
I found the great thing about BOTA is its subtlety. Here I was, colouring cards thinking I wasn't learning anything when suddenly..bam!!...I start dreaming about the current card, complete with associated correspondences. Almost like a subconscious projectioninto the cards. I learnt a lot from BOTA, but the main lesson I learned was that magick does not need to always be ceremonial, and that ritual is often an outward expression of an inner activity.
93 93/93
Todd
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Original post: insert_name_here
Thankyou all, this will keep me busy for awhile.
FIAT LUX - I know the rituals are based on Masonic ones, sorry if you take offence but I dislike the 'vibes' and philosophies of Masonry, although I did draw a kickass version of "the weeping virgin at the broken altar" - no idea what its real name is.
I really like Crowleyana but I find I have problems with the the Holy Books, specifically Liber AL, I don't know - after I memorised and studied it my world had become so scary alot of synchronicities came about, or were finally noticed.
I know basic Hebrew and Sanskrit and am TRYING to learn Enochian.
Also, I respect the G.'.D.'. an example of how much more secure I feel with this system than with the Thelemic one is that I will cannot perform the Star Ruby, yet can vibrate the Hebrew god-names of the old-style LBRP fine... btw Israel Regardie's audiobooks are kickass.
I think Thelema is growing on me, I have been studying it for 6 years and have had MANY ups and downs with it... as my views are ever-changing.
Thankyou all for you help. I'm off to explore the links and ideas here given, Thanks.
Thankyou all, this will keep me busy for awhile.
FIAT LUX - I know the rituals are based on Masonic ones, sorry if you take offence but I dislike the 'vibes' and philosophies of Masonry, although I did draw a kickass version of "the weeping virgin at the broken altar" - no idea what its real name is.
I really like Crowleyana but I find I have problems with the the Holy Books, specifically Liber AL, I don't know - after I memorised and studied it my world had become so scary alot of synchronicities came about, or were finally noticed.
I know basic Hebrew and Sanskrit and am TRYING to learn Enochian.
Also, I respect the G.'.D.'. an example of how much more secure I feel with this system than with the Thelemic one is that I will cannot perform the Star Ruby, yet can vibrate the Hebrew god-names of the old-style LBRP fine... btw Israel Regardie's audiobooks are kickass.
I think Thelema is growing on me, I have been studying it for 6 years and have had MANY ups and downs with it... as my views are ever-changing.
Thankyou all for you help. I'm off to explore the links and ideas here given, Thanks.
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Original post: insert_name_here
Here is a follow up on what has happened, for those wondering:
I received and email, see below, from a nice lass named Soror Kermes-Vesta which comforts me on my thoughts of this organisation. I will email back with the appropriate info, and I find it funny that she refers to me by my alias; Meryl. Marvelous Meryl which I took fom the Family Guy cartoon. Thanks.
"Dear Meryl,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
That's very nice of your friend - I wonder who it is, as I have met with most
of the potential candidates.
At this stage, the next "open day" will probably be in late October sometime. I
have also added some info to this email that you may like to read in the
meantime.
Following are the necessary requirements for membership, of which there are
few.
"Every man and woman, free of full age and good report has an indefeasible
right to the first three degrees of O.T.O."
Therefore as 18 is the age of consent in Australian law, so it is with
Australian O.T.O, this constitutes the full age quota. By "free" it may be
suggested that it is solely the decision of the applicant and seeing as the
freedom of the individual is one of the primary tenets of Thelema, this you
will also find in our organisation. Your level of involvement is self
determined and at any time were this not to be the case we would expect and
appreciate notification of the occurrance, that it may be dealt with in an
appropriate manner. Finally, good report requires the ability to pay the
respective dues and fees (payable upon Initiation), and the ability to secure 2
sponsors from amongst the membership of O.T.O.
The fees at present for Minerval degree are $50 Initiation fees (covering the
costs of the evening itself), and $50 annual dues/subscription (covering the
administrative/business costs of maintaining a legally recognised not-for-
profit religious incorporated body, and any regular publications you may
receive as an initiate member.)
Sponsorship may obviously only be gained through meeting members, of which 2
are required to vouch for your suitability with some amount of
responsibilty/interest to be taken in your personal development within O.T.O.
In this regard, although previously we tried to meet people individually, to
reduce the burden of time and organisation involved in doing so, we are now
seeking to hold a type of open day (for want of a better description) on a
quarterly basis or as demand dictates. This will enable attendees to meet a
larger cross section of our local members initially, will give you the
opportunity to get a vibe on the community aspect of our local body whilst also
streamlining our processes. In addition we may be able to run some short
introductory workshop which will probably be determined by the interests and/or
experience of the attendees.
Aside of the formalities, I would encourage you to maintain an email dialogue
with me until the aforementioned date airing any questions or concerns,
allowing me some insight into your magickal/spiritual interests and background
and in return I will endeavour to answer any queries you may have and point you
in the right direction as far as any preliminary practices or books are
concerned.
If the information supplied is satisfactory to your present needs (as I hope it
is) and you wish to continue on this path, please reply to this email and we
will continue with the process. For any further research into O.T.O, I will
direct you to the National website at www.otoaustralia.org.au, there is plenty
of info on the order including the history, an explanation of our methodolgy
and degree structure, and an online library.
Love is the law, love under will.
Warm Regards
Soror Kermes-Vesta"
MY REPLY:
I am slightly under-age and have been studying the occult since grade 4. I live in Geelong, at the moment.
I read A.O Spare. I also read Kenneth Grant, and find the subjects of his books go everywhere and sometimes no-where which is very close to Magickal thought patterns. I use Israel Regardie tapes to learn rituals and have memorised the first chapter of Liber AL.
I understand these two men are considered 'Black Brothers' in some Thelemic organisations, and so thought it necessary to inform you that I read there work. Incase this is so with The Company of Heaven.(TCH?)
I am also very interested in Tantra and know some Sanskrit, Hebrew and Enochian.
I have a copy of Francis Kings' Rituals of OTO, if you have read this book, I would like to ask if your rituals very similar?
Also, will I be given a name at joining? I am currently known as Frater Izizop, and would rather you refer to me as such - please, rather then the alias used by my email. This is my fault, I forgot to end my last email with 'Frater Izizop' - my apologies.
My music-taste ranges from Richard Wagner to David Bowie, TOOL and NIN - just to let you know some more. Thankyou for taking the time to send me the kind email and to read this.
Here is a follow up on what has happened, for those wondering:
I received and email, see below, from a nice lass named Soror Kermes-Vesta which comforts me on my thoughts of this organisation. I will email back with the appropriate info, and I find it funny that she refers to me by my alias; Meryl. Marvelous Meryl which I took fom the Family Guy cartoon. Thanks.
"Dear Meryl,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
That's very nice of your friend - I wonder who it is, as I have met with most
of the potential candidates.
At this stage, the next "open day" will probably be in late October sometime. I
have also added some info to this email that you may like to read in the
meantime.
Following are the necessary requirements for membership, of which there are
few.
"Every man and woman, free of full age and good report has an indefeasible
right to the first three degrees of O.T.O."
Therefore as 18 is the age of consent in Australian law, so it is with
Australian O.T.O, this constitutes the full age quota. By "free" it may be
suggested that it is solely the decision of the applicant and seeing as the
freedom of the individual is one of the primary tenets of Thelema, this you
will also find in our organisation. Your level of involvement is self
determined and at any time were this not to be the case we would expect and
appreciate notification of the occurrance, that it may be dealt with in an
appropriate manner. Finally, good report requires the ability to pay the
respective dues and fees (payable upon Initiation), and the ability to secure 2
sponsors from amongst the membership of O.T.O.
The fees at present for Minerval degree are $50 Initiation fees (covering the
costs of the evening itself), and $50 annual dues/subscription (covering the
administrative/business costs of maintaining a legally recognised not-for-
profit religious incorporated body, and any regular publications you may
receive as an initiate member.)
Sponsorship may obviously only be gained through meeting members, of which 2
are required to vouch for your suitability with some amount of
responsibilty/interest to be taken in your personal development within O.T.O.
In this regard, although previously we tried to meet people individually, to
reduce the burden of time and organisation involved in doing so, we are now
seeking to hold a type of open day (for want of a better description) on a
quarterly basis or as demand dictates. This will enable attendees to meet a
larger cross section of our local members initially, will give you the
opportunity to get a vibe on the community aspect of our local body whilst also
streamlining our processes. In addition we may be able to run some short
introductory workshop which will probably be determined by the interests and/or
experience of the attendees.
Aside of the formalities, I would encourage you to maintain an email dialogue
with me until the aforementioned date airing any questions or concerns,
allowing me some insight into your magickal/spiritual interests and background
and in return I will endeavour to answer any queries you may have and point you
in the right direction as far as any preliminary practices or books are
concerned.
If the information supplied is satisfactory to your present needs (as I hope it
is) and you wish to continue on this path, please reply to this email and we
will continue with the process. For any further research into O.T.O, I will
direct you to the National website at www.otoaustralia.org.au, there is plenty
of info on the order including the history, an explanation of our methodolgy
and degree structure, and an online library.
Love is the law, love under will.
Warm Regards
Soror Kermes-Vesta"
MY REPLY:
I am slightly under-age and have been studying the occult since grade 4. I live in Geelong, at the moment.
I read A.O Spare. I also read Kenneth Grant, and find the subjects of his books go everywhere and sometimes no-where which is very close to Magickal thought patterns. I use Israel Regardie tapes to learn rituals and have memorised the first chapter of Liber AL.
I understand these two men are considered 'Black Brothers' in some Thelemic organisations, and so thought it necessary to inform you that I read there work. Incase this is so with The Company of Heaven.(TCH?)
I am also very interested in Tantra and know some Sanskrit, Hebrew and Enochian.
I have a copy of Francis Kings' Rituals of OTO, if you have read this book, I would like to ask if your rituals very similar?
Also, will I be given a name at joining? I am currently known as Frater Izizop, and would rather you refer to me as such - please, rather then the alias used by my email. This is my fault, I forgot to end my last email with 'Frater Izizop' - my apologies.
My music-taste ranges from Richard Wagner to David Bowie, TOOL and NIN - just to let you know some more. Thankyou for taking the time to send me the kind email and to read this.