Original post: Grab
I've seen the description "Etheric Body" on some websites and online books, but I don't know how it relates to the Astral Body. Some articles say they are the same, some say they are different.
In Bardon terms, we have the Mental Plane, then the Astral Plane, then the Material Plane. The Astral Body lives in the Astral Plane, of course. Then there's the Bardonian Mental Matrix, and Astral Matrix too, just to confuse.
Could someone explain how the Etheric Body relates to any of this?
Thanks
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Original post: Frater Manjet
My opinion on the subtle bodies.
First I will note I do not like the plurality of the term. I see them all as one body in varying degrees of vibration, density, divinity or whatever one chooses to define the variations.
The vast majority of religions and esoteric studies describe such variations of being. While they may disagree on the nature of such divisions they nonetheless agree that there is more to being than the material body alone.
Like the blind men and the elephant we are all trying to grasp the whole beyond our mere fraction of perception.
I will not expand on the higher aspects as mental, astral etc... since your question is to the etheric body.
My classification and definition places the etheric body as the first seperation from the prime material. Of all my higher body work and travel I find this realm to be the most objective. This is where I have seen what most people call ghosts or as I will phrase it "the lost". I also have seen and interacted with others both asleep and awake.
Since this state of being is so close to the prime material I still consider it as such. I still feel "connected" to the physical realm.
There is still a veil I must cross to enter TEX ( the 30th Aethyr ). It is this veil where I first completely sever my ties to the physical body.
I look forward to hearing other perspectives on this subject.
"From Horizon to Horizon in VVV" Fr. Manjet
My opinion on the subtle bodies.
First I will note I do not like the plurality of the term. I see them all as one body in varying degrees of vibration, density, divinity or whatever one chooses to define the variations.
The vast majority of religions and esoteric studies describe such variations of being. While they may disagree on the nature of such divisions they nonetheless agree that there is more to being than the material body alone.
Like the blind men and the elephant we are all trying to grasp the whole beyond our mere fraction of perception.
I will not expand on the higher aspects as mental, astral etc... since your question is to the etheric body.
My classification and definition places the etheric body as the first seperation from the prime material. Of all my higher body work and travel I find this realm to be the most objective. This is where I have seen what most people call ghosts or as I will phrase it "the lost". I also have seen and interacted with others both asleep and awake.
Since this state of being is so close to the prime material I still consider it as such. I still feel "connected" to the physical realm.
There is still a veil I must cross to enter TEX ( the 30th Aethyr ). It is this veil where I first completely sever my ties to the physical body.
I look forward to hearing other perspectives on this subject.
"From Horizon to Horizon in VVV" Fr. Manjet
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Original post: I AM
As Frater said, I too do not distinguish between different planes. They are different vibrational states of the self. And, it is also possible to be in more than one vibrational state simultaneously. This happens as a result of growth.
The "Mental Plane" is one that we seldom see being discussed in the Occult however it is actually VERY important and this importance grows as the Magickian develops.
Humbly, I AM
As Frater said, I too do not distinguish between different planes. They are different vibrational states of the self. And, it is also possible to be in more than one vibrational state simultaneously. This happens as a result of growth.
The "Mental Plane" is one that we seldom see being discussed in the Occult however it is actually VERY important and this importance grows as the Magickian develops.
Humbly, I AM
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Original post: Ceriel Nosforit
If in one's system of beleif on is able to unite matter and mind as aspects of the same instead of seeing them as two different things, one gets a completely new perspective on this question. One might, for instance, explain this with a term from literature. - Levels of abstraction. A fruit is more abstract than an apple. A small red and sweet apple is more concrete than just an apple. - We then see the physical body, your physical body, as something concrete. Your etheric body is more abstract, and your astral body is even more abstract.
If in one's system of beleif on is able to unite matter and mind as aspects of the same instead of seeing them as two different things, one gets a completely new perspective on this question. One might, for instance, explain this with a term from literature. - Levels of abstraction. A fruit is more abstract than an apple. A small red and sweet apple is more concrete than just an apple. - We then see the physical body, your physical body, as something concrete. Your etheric body is more abstract, and your astral body is even more abstract.
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Original post: kalki
A very good post by Frater Manjet there.
If you can percieve existence in terms of varying degrees of vibration not only will you be able to advance in a much clearer light on the path but you will have all the schools of science in varying degrees agreeing with the principle.
When you spin a wheel with spokes you see a blur, but if you are moving at the same speed you see the spokes of the wheel. If you are in the etheric body you can see the physical world, but its difficult to see the etheric world from the physical because... If you are a spoke spinning fast you can still see the world outside, but if you are the world outside you cannot see the spoke because it spins too fast.....:-? , its difficult to explain but I hope you can visualize that?
A very good post by Frater Manjet there.
If you can percieve existence in terms of varying degrees of vibration not only will you be able to advance in a much clearer light on the path but you will have all the schools of science in varying degrees agreeing with the principle.
When you spin a wheel with spokes you see a blur, but if you are moving at the same speed you see the spokes of the wheel. If you are in the etheric body you can see the physical world, but its difficult to see the etheric world from the physical because... If you are a spoke spinning fast you can still see the world outside, but if you are the world outside you cannot see the spoke because it spins too fast.....:-? , its difficult to explain but I hope you can visualize that?
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Original post: Grab
Well, obviously the authors (Bardon, Crowley, et al) choose for pedagogical reasons to portait the world a little bit simpler than it really is. Having body 1,2,3 and plane 1,2,3 is easier to grasp for a newbie than a continuos spectrum of "frequencies".
We always pick various models of the world in order to understand it, and when we master that understanding, the models are no longer as needed.
I'm not sure but I think this relates also to the four kabalistic worlds, Atziluth etc.
Is the Etheric Body situated in the "zone girdling the earth" (cf Bardon) and is this zone the path between Malkuth and Yesod? Meaning that when we travel this path, we also travel from the material world through all the frequencies of the "zone girdling the earth" until we arrive at the Astral Plane situated in Yesod?
/Grab
Well, obviously the authors (Bardon, Crowley, et al) choose for pedagogical reasons to portait the world a little bit simpler than it really is. Having body 1,2,3 and plane 1,2,3 is easier to grasp for a newbie than a continuos spectrum of "frequencies".
We always pick various models of the world in order to understand it, and when we master that understanding, the models are no longer as needed.
I'm not sure but I think this relates also to the four kabalistic worlds, Atziluth etc.
Is the Etheric Body situated in the "zone girdling the earth" (cf Bardon) and is this zone the path between Malkuth and Yesod? Meaning that when we travel this path, we also travel from the material world through all the frequencies of the "zone girdling the earth" until we arrive at the Astral Plane situated in Yesod?
/Grab
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Original post: jacques vabre
Hi Grab,
I don't have any practical experience of the answers I'm about to give, it's only book knowledge. I hope it helps.
Bardon's physical-astral matrix *is* the etheric body. The etheric plane is considered to be a part of the physical plane, so technically it's not a plane in itself, but rather, a subplane.
There are 7 planes in total, each subdvided into 7 subplanes. The 7 planes are the physical, astral, mental, buddhic, atmic, monadic planes, and finally the plane of the Adi, the primeval divine spark. There is no clearcut separation between the planes, the vibration increases in a continuous fashion as you go up. You can picture the planes like the 7 colors of the rainbow, or the 7 notes on a musical scale, these 7 zones are clearly distinguishable from one another, yet part of the same whole.
The etheric "plane " or Bardon's astral matrix is made of the 4 highest subplanes of the physical plane. Check out this url for a great chart where everything is clearly displayed:
http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/chart4.html
What you said regarding the zone girdling the earth being part of the etheric is, I think, correct but for one thing. The zone girdling the earth is actually Malkuth. Our physical earth is several steps lower than Malkuth in density and is not pictured on the tree of life per say. In summary, to Malkuth corresponds the zone girdling the earth, aka the etheric plane, ie: the highest subplanes of the physical, and as you correctly stated, to Yesod corresponds the Moon sphere, the Astral plane.
Anyway, all this theory is intellectually stimulating but nothing replaces actual experience. I donâ??t have it yet
Ciao
JV
Hi Grab,
I don't have any practical experience of the answers I'm about to give, it's only book knowledge. I hope it helps.
Bardon's physical-astral matrix *is* the etheric body. The etheric plane is considered to be a part of the physical plane, so technically it's not a plane in itself, but rather, a subplane.
There are 7 planes in total, each subdvided into 7 subplanes. The 7 planes are the physical, astral, mental, buddhic, atmic, monadic planes, and finally the plane of the Adi, the primeval divine spark. There is no clearcut separation between the planes, the vibration increases in a continuous fashion as you go up. You can picture the planes like the 7 colors of the rainbow, or the 7 notes on a musical scale, these 7 zones are clearly distinguishable from one another, yet part of the same whole.
The etheric "plane " or Bardon's astral matrix is made of the 4 highest subplanes of the physical plane. Check out this url for a great chart where everything is clearly displayed:
http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/chart4.html
What you said regarding the zone girdling the earth being part of the etheric is, I think, correct but for one thing. The zone girdling the earth is actually Malkuth. Our physical earth is several steps lower than Malkuth in density and is not pictured on the tree of life per say. In summary, to Malkuth corresponds the zone girdling the earth, aka the etheric plane, ie: the highest subplanes of the physical, and as you correctly stated, to Yesod corresponds the Moon sphere, the Astral plane.
Anyway, all this theory is intellectually stimulating but nothing replaces actual experience. I donâ??t have it yet
Ciao
JV
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Original post: Ludi
If the astral plane is lower than the mental, why is it easier to think than it is to go into the astral? Or am I misunderstanding the word "mental?"
If the astral plane is lower than the mental, why is it easier to think than it is to go into the astral? Or am I misunderstanding the word "mental?"
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Original post: Grab
jacques vabre) Excellent post and link, thanks!
Ludi) Bardon suggests starting with mental projection before attempting astral projection. He also says that the mental one when performed correctly will be very close to the astral one... So, if I may rephrase your question: Why is it easier to mentally project if the astral plane is lower and thus closer to us?
jacques vabre) Excellent post and link, thanks!
Ludi) Bardon suggests starting with mental projection before attempting astral projection. He also says that the mental one when performed correctly will be very close to the astral one... So, if I may rephrase your question: Why is it easier to mentally project if the astral plane is lower and thus closer to us?
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Original post: Ludi
What is "mental projection?"
What is "mental projection?"
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Original post: visceral/spagyrical
I'd say because, as adults, we spend more time in the mental, whereas children spend more time in the astral.
It's the cultural influences that cause the shift from astral to mental as the primary focus of extra-physical activity.
v/s
I'd say because, as adults, we spend more time in the mental, whereas children spend more time in the astral.
It's the cultural influences that cause the shift from astral to mental as the primary focus of extra-physical activity.
v/s
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Original post: Fraulein Meow
The reason that ir's easier to project onto the mental plane than it is to project onto the astral or etheric planes is that it's easier to seperate out mental body from our physical than it is to seperate our astral or etheric bodies.
Projecting onto the mental plane is not so different from having a vision - the mental body is very subtle and tenuous, and thus not so attached to the physical, nor is it so inclined to hold a similar form to the physical body. Getting to the mental plane is relatively easy - just visualize a magickal image (like a tattwa or tarot card or whatever) and imagine yourself going through it. With a little practice it becomes second nature. You have the choice then of taking in the resulting vision passively or forming your mental body (into whatever form you want - the mental substance is extremely easy to form, well, mentally) and exploring the plane at will.
As for projecting onto the physical plane - it's much easier to succeed in remote viewing (done with the mental body) than it is to seperate the astral body to the point that you can astrally walk into the house next door and see what's in the closets. It's more difficult still to etherically project - the etheric body is denser than the astral and has been known to have the ability to move and affect physical objects.
So given all this - I do agree that there are no hard boundaries per say between the planes, it does seem to work more like a spectrum. But certain wavelength ranges seems to have certain properties particular onto to those wavelength ranges, much like the colors in the color spectrum.
Hope this helps,
Fraulein Meow
The reason that ir's easier to project onto the mental plane than it is to project onto the astral or etheric planes is that it's easier to seperate out mental body from our physical than it is to seperate our astral or etheric bodies.
Projecting onto the mental plane is not so different from having a vision - the mental body is very subtle and tenuous, and thus not so attached to the physical, nor is it so inclined to hold a similar form to the physical body. Getting to the mental plane is relatively easy - just visualize a magickal image (like a tattwa or tarot card or whatever) and imagine yourself going through it. With a little practice it becomes second nature. You have the choice then of taking in the resulting vision passively or forming your mental body (into whatever form you want - the mental substance is extremely easy to form, well, mentally) and exploring the plane at will.
As for projecting onto the physical plane - it's much easier to succeed in remote viewing (done with the mental body) than it is to seperate the astral body to the point that you can astrally walk into the house next door and see what's in the closets. It's more difficult still to etherically project - the etheric body is denser than the astral and has been known to have the ability to move and affect physical objects.
So given all this - I do agree that there are no hard boundaries per say between the planes, it does seem to work more like a spectrum. But certain wavelength ranges seems to have certain properties particular onto to those wavelength ranges, much like the colors in the color spectrum.
Hope this helps,
Fraulein Meow
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Original post: Ludi
Thank you.
Do you do remote viewing, Fraulein Meow?
Thank you.
Do you do remote viewing, Fraulein Meow?
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Original post: Fraulein Meow
I've been able to do it succesfully (after numerous unsuccesful attempts). Full astral projection, on the other hand, I've never been able to do to a degree that I would be satisfied with.
I've been able to do it succesfully (after numerous unsuccesful attempts). Full astral projection, on the other hand, I've never been able to do to a degree that I would be satisfied with.
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Original post: Aodh
I only have experience with etheric projection and remote viewing myself so I will only speak of those. Remote viewing is something that quite literally from all I've seen, if they follow the protocols, can be done by anyone with at least minor success the first time. (Note that I siad if protocols are followed etc. and from my experience) When I was trying to achieve astral projection heavily I achieved etheric projection once. The whole night I 'floated' above myself barely able to move feeling like a ton of bricks hearing, seeing, etc everything around me perfectly. SOme things were confirmed others were not.
I only have experience with etheric projection and remote viewing myself so I will only speak of those. Remote viewing is something that quite literally from all I've seen, if they follow the protocols, can be done by anyone with at least minor success the first time. (Note that I siad if protocols are followed etc. and from my experience) When I was trying to achieve astral projection heavily I achieved etheric projection once. The whole night I 'floated' above myself barely able to move feeling like a ton of bricks hearing, seeing, etc everything around me perfectly. SOme things were confirmed others were not.
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Original post: Ludi
I'm glad, Aodh, I'm trying to find someone to do some remote viewing for me.
I'm glad, Aodh, I'm trying to find someone to do some remote viewing for me.
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Original post: Aodh
Ludi, I gave up long ago as I didn't see use in it
I could try but *shrugs* You may want to just learn it yourself, more useful if you can do it than if you have to ask someone else to
Ludi, I gave up long ago as I didn't see use in it
I could try but *shrugs* You may want to just learn it yourself, more useful if you can do it than if you have to ask someone else to -
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Original post: Ludi
ok.
ok.