Original post: DualMetal
Human perfection. But what good is to be great when one will not help another? How can one express Spirituality in action? As if saying, "look I am here. I see you are hurt. Let me help you, let me be your support in you walking in your path." Let's be honest, it is impossible to give aid to a stubborn human. Christ had his right in critizising and putting in place those who falsely proclaimed Spiritual status, let's not burden him at all.
But it's only logical to give aid to those who needs and not crittizise to belittle instead.
Giving is a logical act. And Spiritual are it's roots in giving, all prophets approve of well. In that one is of value to another. And once again, peace will be promoted.
Christ taught to let go of the debt in giving.
On Giving
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
On Giving
Original post: Spes
Giving aid to someone who does not appreciate it one bit is getting away in easy way - making fool of yourself in my opinion. What about all those situations where you get yourself in trouble by giving? Easy way to get yourself enemies, unhealthy attention and often accusations and alot of wasting time, not to mention bad rumours going around.
Can various givings weight up dirt with what you get hit so often?... I'm talking about both materialistic and non-materialistic giving here, not only nowadays.
Giving aid to someone who does not appreciate it one bit is getting away in easy way - making fool of yourself in my opinion. What about all those situations where you get yourself in trouble by giving? Easy way to get yourself enemies, unhealthy attention and often accusations and alot of wasting time, not to mention bad rumours going around.
Can various givings weight up dirt with what you get hit so often?... I'm talking about both materialistic and non-materialistic giving here, not only nowadays.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
On Giving
Original post: Rin Daemoko
Dana: The Practice of Giving edited by Bhikkhu Bodhi (WH 367/369; 1990; 114k/38pp.)
Dana -- the Pali word means giving, generosity, self-sacrifice: the quality of the heart that moves a person to give away his or her own possessions for the sake of others. Giving in Buddhism is not a mere moral virtue to be randomly engaged in or followed as an obligatory duty. It is, rather, an aspect of training, a means of practice, by which a spiritual aspirant learns to overcome selfishness and attachment and to express a compassionate concern for the welfare of others. In this Wheel booklet four practicing Buddhists of today (Susan Elbaum Jootla, Lily de Silva, M.O'C. Walshe, and Nina van Gorkom), and one classical Buddhist commentator (Acariya Dhammapala), set forth their understanding of giving and examine it in relation to the wider body of Dhamma practice. The writers demonstrate the great range of the Buddhist practice of giving and its vital connections with the quest for enlightenment and final liberation from suffering.
What a fantastic topic, DualMetal! I completely
agree with you on this issue. Below is a little
quip with a link (the big, bold letters) which
leads to an E-book on giving.
Dana: The Practice of Giving edited by Bhikkhu Bodhi (WH 367/369; 1990; 114k/38pp.)
Dana -- the Pali word means giving, generosity, self-sacrifice: the quality of the heart that moves a person to give away his or her own possessions for the sake of others. Giving in Buddhism is not a mere moral virtue to be randomly engaged in or followed as an obligatory duty. It is, rather, an aspect of training, a means of practice, by which a spiritual aspirant learns to overcome selfishness and attachment and to express a compassionate concern for the welfare of others. In this Wheel booklet four practicing Buddhists of today (Susan Elbaum Jootla, Lily de Silva, M.O'C. Walshe, and Nina van Gorkom), and one classical Buddhist commentator (Acariya Dhammapala), set forth their understanding of giving and examine it in relation to the wider body of Dhamma practice. The writers demonstrate the great range of the Buddhist practice of giving and its vital connections with the quest for enlightenment and final liberation from suffering.
[From the back cover]
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
On Giving
Original post: Ludi
The only way to be hurt by giving is to expect anything in return, including gratitude.
The only way to be hurt by giving is to expect anything in return, including gratitude.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
On Giving
Original post: Happytreehugger
If they criticize and belittle you what would you prove in neglecting them?But it's only logical to give aid to those who needs and not crittizise to belittle instead.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
On Giving
Original post: Spes
[QUOTE=Ludi]The only way to be hurt by giving is to expect anything in return, including gratitude.[/QUOTE] So you're saying there ain't alot of cases aid-receivers who abuse helpers? How often do we see someone who comes up with lies in order to gain material aid. Very often people try to cheat out money or stuff for their own good when there are other's nearby who would really need this way more.
Back when Estonia got free again from occupation dozen years ago, alot of aid requests were delivered to West, both Europe and U.S.
Alot of help was given too - clothes, medicine and tons of other stuff. But alot of those who asked for aid turned out to be scum. Even some priests were among there. Those things were discussed alot back then in newspapers. Those who asked for aid in name of poor people just took better things and majority of cash and often sold things which were ment to be spared for free.
This was just one way and one exsample but saying that only way you can be fooled is when you expect something in return is not realistic.
Because those who sent help were not deaf and blind (later! not when they could have checked background of those to whom they sent aid) and cut off sending help. Ofcourse they were pissed too.
[QUOTE=Ludi]The only way to be hurt by giving is to expect anything in return, including gratitude.[/QUOTE] So you're saying there ain't alot of cases aid-receivers who abuse helpers? How often do we see someone who comes up with lies in order to gain material aid. Very often people try to cheat out money or stuff for their own good when there are other's nearby who would really need this way more.
Back when Estonia got free again from occupation dozen years ago, alot of aid requests were delivered to West, both Europe and U.S.
Alot of help was given too - clothes, medicine and tons of other stuff. But alot of those who asked for aid turned out to be scum. Even some priests were among there. Those things were discussed alot back then in newspapers. Those who asked for aid in name of poor people just took better things and majority of cash and often sold things which were ment to be spared for free.
This was just one way and one exsample but saying that only way you can be fooled is when you expect something in return is not realistic.
Because those who sent help were not deaf and blind (later! not when they could have checked background of those to whom they sent aid) and cut off sending help. Ofcourse they were pissed too.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
On Giving
Original post: Ludi
You misunderstand me, Spes. I'm not claiming that one should only give to those who "deserve it." If one simply gives because one wants to give, one cannot be hurt or abused.
As an example of giving spirituality, Jesus said that if someone asks you for your shirt, you should give him your coat as well. He said nothing about whether that person deserves it or not, or whether you should expect gratitude or not.
You misunderstand me, Spes. I'm not claiming that one should only give to those who "deserve it." If one simply gives because one wants to give, one cannot be hurt or abused.
As an example of giving spirituality, Jesus said that if someone asks you for your shirt, you should give him your coat as well. He said nothing about whether that person deserves it or not, or whether you should expect gratitude or not.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
On Giving
Original post: Rin Daemoko
[QUOTE=Ludi]The only way to be hurt by giving is to expect anything in return, including gratitude.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ludi]As an example of giving spirituality, Jesus said that if someone asks you for your shirt, you should give him your coat as well. He said nothing about whether that person deserves it or not, or whether you should expect gratitude or not.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ludi]The only way to be hurt by giving is to expect anything in return, including gratitude.[/QUOTE]
Amen, Ludi! I completely agree that if one is
engaged in the act of giving for the sole
purpose of getting something in return, then
the act of giving is no longer a selfless act - it
becomes just another selfish attempt to fill the
ego until it bursts.
Giving should be a compassionate act. Com-
passion just gives because it is good to give.
Of course there is always a reward for being
compassionate however - true happiness, and
fulfillment.
[QUOTE=Ludi]As an example of giving spirituality, Jesus said that if someone asks you for your shirt, you should give him your coat as well. He said nothing about whether that person deserves it or not, or whether you should expect gratitude or not.[/QUOTE]
There is a similar Buddhist parable in which
a thief breaks into the home of a monk to
find only the monk and nothing else - the
home is completely bare. The Buddhist tells
the thief that he has nothing to give, so he
asks him to please take his clothes.
So the thief leaves with the monk's clothes,
leaving him naked. He then looks up at
the moon in the sky and says, "it's too bad
I couldn't have given him the beautiful
moon as well."
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
On Giving
Original post: Ludi
I remember reading that parable before; it is lovely.
I remember reading that parable before; it is lovely.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
On Giving
Original post: DualMetal
Acting upon what moves one self and what helps with self identification within personal matters, can be more fulfilling than any law placed to follow, as long as there is a reasonable cause to one's action.
All of you have something good to add.
Acting upon what moves one self and what helps with self identification within personal matters, can be more fulfilling than any law placed to follow, as long as there is a reasonable cause to one's action.
All of you have something good to add.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
On Giving
Original post: Quidgyboo
[QUOTE=Ludi]The only way to be hurt by giving is to expect anything in return, including gratitude.[/QUOTE]
*applauds*
Far too often to we help others as a path to help ourselves. A bit of selflessness would not go astray in the average human bean (not a typo).
It may be nonsense but I have noticed that people who grew up with no brothers and sisters and had a fairly comfortable upbringing seem to haver a harder time being selfless, as opposed to someone like me with 3 brothers
[QUOTE=Ludi]The only way to be hurt by giving is to expect anything in return, including gratitude.[/QUOTE]
*applauds*
Far too often to we help others as a path to help ourselves. A bit of selflessness would not go astray in the average human bean (not a typo).
It may be nonsense but I have noticed that people who grew up with no brothers and sisters and had a fairly comfortable upbringing seem to haver a harder time being selfless, as opposed to someone like me with 3 brothers
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
On Giving
Original post: Spes
I don't understand your logic here people (Rin Daemoko, Ludi and Quidgyboo) but that's because I come from pretty different society and have rather Satanist views that Christian or Buddist. Thus I see not much of discussion on this thread if it comes to "Amen!" and "Jesus said". Maybe I got it wrong and it IS discussion based on Jesus giving not on giving?...
Anyhow I support free choice of viewpoints so whatever you like;)
I don't understand your logic here people (Rin Daemoko, Ludi and Quidgyboo) but that's because I come from pretty different society and have rather Satanist views that Christian or Buddist. Thus I see not much of discussion on this thread if it comes to "Amen!" and "Jesus said". Maybe I got it wrong and it IS discussion based on Jesus giving not on giving?...
Anyhow I support free choice of viewpoints so whatever you like;)
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
On Giving
Original post: Ludi
I used the Jesus example because I come from a Christian background, though I'm no longer Christian.
There is no logic in giving without anticipation of receiving anything in return. This kind of action isn't based on reason, but on emotion, the sense that one wants to give and so simply gives. "Giving" with an expectation of return is more like bribing, bribing someone to like you, or do something for you, or perform some expected action. I think most of us "give" more in the manner of a bribe; most of us don't give freely as in the examples.
I used the Jesus example because I come from a Christian background, though I'm no longer Christian.
There is no logic in giving without anticipation of receiving anything in return. This kind of action isn't based on reason, but on emotion, the sense that one wants to give and so simply gives. "Giving" with an expectation of return is more like bribing, bribing someone to like you, or do something for you, or perform some expected action. I think most of us "give" more in the manner of a bribe; most of us don't give freely as in the examples.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
On Giving
Original post: Anathema_Oracle
[QUOTE=Ludi]
There is no logic in giving without anticipation of receiving anything in return. This kind of action isn't based on reason, but on emotion, the sense that one wants to give and so simply gives. "Giving" with an expectation of return is more like bribing, bribing someone to like you, or do something for you, or perform some expected action. I think most of us "give" more in the manner of a bribe; most of us don't give freely as in the examples.[/QUOTE]
Santa does!!!
[QUOTE=Ludi]
There is no logic in giving without anticipation of receiving anything in return. This kind of action isn't based on reason, but on emotion, the sense that one wants to give and so simply gives. "Giving" with an expectation of return is more like bribing, bribing someone to like you, or do something for you, or perform some expected action. I think most of us "give" more in the manner of a bribe; most of us don't give freely as in the examples.[/QUOTE]
Santa does!!!
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
On Giving
Original post: Ludi
Hooray for Santa!!
Hooray for Santa!!
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
On Giving
Original post: Rin Daemoko
Hail Santa!
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
On Giving
Original post: DualMetal
[QUOTE=Spes]I don't understand your logic here people (Rin Daemoko, Ludi and Quidgyboo) but that's because I come from pretty different society and have rather Satanist views that Christian or Buddist. Thus I see not much of discussion on this thread if it comes to "Amen!" and "Jesus said". Maybe I got it wrong and it IS discussion based on Jesus giving not on giving?...
Anyhow I support free choice of viewpoints so whatever you like;)[/QUOTE]
I could have started this topic without mentioning Jesus, how's that??
[QUOTE=Spes]I don't understand your logic here people (Rin Daemoko, Ludi and Quidgyboo) but that's because I come from pretty different society and have rather Satanist views that Christian or Buddist. Thus I see not much of discussion on this thread if it comes to "Amen!" and "Jesus said". Maybe I got it wrong and it IS discussion based on Jesus giving not on giving?...
Anyhow I support free choice of viewpoints so whatever you like;)[/QUOTE]
I could have started this topic without mentioning Jesus, how's that??