Hansel & Gretel movie - Well, this'll piss you off

[Occultess]

Here's one of the trailers:

And this is the version that might offend you:

And this is the version that will definitely offend you:

[Rin]

The only thing that pisses me off is that I saw this movie half a decade ago when it was called Brothers Grimm :|

[entropic]

Piss me off, why? Did I miss something important here?

[Occultess]

-
This is their Facebook ad for the movie.

[entropic]

I'm still not getting this, it looks like a silly movie, yes..but those are spewed out in great numbers all the time, what makes this one worthy of a own thread in here?

[TheSeeker]

Yeah, sorry. Why are we all angry about this piece of trash?

[Occultess]

I'm sorry..... [sadface]

I just thought that people would actually care about their own people being slaughtered....

.....guess I was wrong [sadface]



Please,...just forget about it if it arouses this much apathy.... [sadface]

[TheSeeker]

Please,...just forget about it if it arouses this much apathy.... [sadface]

Aw, c'mon now Eeyore, don't be like that... [cool2]
X and I just didn't understand what you were so bothered about.
Whose people?

[entropic]

I'm sorry..... [sadface]

I just thought that people would actually care about their own people being slaughtered....

.....guess I was wrong [sadface]



Please,...just forget about it if it arouses this much apathy.... [sadface]

'My own people', where? Wtf is that supposed to mean?

[Serenitydawn]

'My own people', where? Wtf is that supposed to mean?

I see them, look behind you. [wink]

[Nahemah]

I get it.I think.

Occultess is concerned about negative media stereotyping of Witches and Witchcraft in the Media.

To those of us who are currently comfortable in our relatively secular cultures,this kind of portrayal is meaningless and trashy,to be laughed over and dismissed.

And rightly so.

But...

Are there darker undercurrents here?

GOP go Hollywood...hmmm...

Propaganda in stereotyping,through popular media bias...could it ever be true? DISINFORMATION,OH NO...

Star Wars...

Military satellites in Space...

Asteroids...Armaggedon


Alien threat..4th July
Et al.

BIological weapons...

28 days later

All Zombie flicks.

Terrorists...

Argos


Terrorists with biological weapons?


..fill in the blanks for yourself,any subject,lol...

Please don't dismiss her concerns out of hand.

Complacency is comfortable and a luxury not everyone else has... [shock2]

Devil's advocacy tonight.Hels Yeh. [twisted]

[TheSeeker]

Personally I find Zero Dark Thirty a much more disturbing show of propagandistic crap. [eek]

[Occultess]

Personally I find Zero Dark Thirty a much more disturbing show of propagandistic crap. [eek]

That's that one about Osama Bin Laden or something, isn't it? Yeah, I'll agree. That is a hate propaganda that they really want to have an impact on the world and what people think these days.

My problem with the Hansel and Gretel movie was mostly that it, more or less, condones and promotes genocide. It wasn't picking out good witches from bad. It was saying they were all evil. Considering that this is a real group of people (movie characterization notwithstanding) that's both untrue and a pretty major generalization. Would probably qualify nicely as racism. ...ok, well I guess that part probably is atleast a bit about stereotyping, but... then there's the part where after they've done a nice job of lumping all witches into a great big pile marked, "evil". They then add that they should all be killed. That, again, considering this is a group of real people alive today, is not the greatest message in the world to throw out in a movie (especially when it's being thrown out by the heroes of the film that you are supposed to like and support). Then if that wasn't bad enough, they say that they shouldn't just be killed, but that they should be burned. This, considering that burning was the exact way in which witches were killed, in real life, when people actually did try to wipe them out of existence is at the very least insensitive.

[Rin]

Personally I really don't feel you can equate silly fairytale witches with modern occultism. They're two different things and I don't think one is intended to represent the other. Sure it's a little annoying when media gives people crazy ideas about what magic and occultism and witchcraft actually entail, but genocide seems a little excessive.

[Serenitydawn]

My problem with the Hansel and Gretel movie was mostly that it, more or less, condones and promotes genocide. It wasn't picking out good witches from bad. It was saying they were all evil. Considering that this is a real group of people (movie characterization notwithstanding) that's both untrue and a pretty major generalization. Would probably qualify nicely as racism. ...ok, well I guess that part probably is atleast a bit about stereotyping, but... then there's the part where after they've done a nice job of lumping all witches into a great big pile marked, "evil". They then add that they should all be killed. That, again, considering this is a group of real people alive today, is not the greatest message in the world to throw out in a movie (especially when it's being thrown out by the heroes of the film that you are supposed to like and support). Then if that wasn't bad enough, they say that they shouldn't just be killed, but that they should be burned. This, considering that burning was the exact way in which witches were killed, in real life, when people actually did try to wipe them out of existence is at the very least insensitive.

Pretty much how many, even those involved in occultism, view LHP and Satanism. There is no such thing as evil, only different perspectives. Most Christians would say we are all evil, because that's their perspective. [rolleyes] Anyone or anything different is evil because they fear it, and what they fear they destroy. Back in the day magick and the occult was mainstream religion, you could rape and beat whomever you chose (as long as they were yours), and wives and children were merely property with no rights. All about perspective and what's socially acceptable.

[entropic]

Cackle, so first NOW somebody Occultess could identify with ended up as the inhuman bad guys that deserves to be killed indiscriminately? About time you realized that to a lot of ppl that is how we all look.. so next time you see satanists portrayed as maniacs running around killing ppl just for fun and trying to bring on the apocalypse, maybe you'll remember that would include you too. [eg]

[Penelope]

This doesn't piss me off - because if it DID, i'd also get pissed off about a LOT of other shit spewed out of HWood and prob go mental.

So it's sort of self preservation, "yeah i'm cool" style. I feel your pain, bro. (Sorry. Wine.) I also hate when all of the PTSD patients are bad guys, or everyone with tattoos is evil. It's just movies. But Renner is nice to look at at least.

[Occultess]

Cackle, so first NOW somebody Occultess could identify with ended up as the inhuman bad guys that deserves to be killed indiscriminately? About time you realized that to a lot of ppl that is how we all look.. so next time you see satanists portrayed as maniacs running around killing ppl just for fun and trying to bring on the apocalypse, maybe you'll remember that would include you too. [eg]

I would like to know what in the hell you are talking about and I would also like to know when I somehow became the bad guy. If I have said anything on this forum that would make you or Satanists out to be bad guys...it would only have come from 1. coming from a Christian background and 2. not knowing a lot (if anything) about truer aspects of it. I'm sure that story I wrote on here about the Chain Letter, probably wouldn't be viewed with the most love..., and maybe that's due. But, again, I come from a Christian background. That is what I knew of demons at that time. Since that story, though, Stukov spoke with me a long while about demons and whatnot and, I still don't have every aspect and I still don't fully understand or know what to entirely believe, but I nonetheless have what he told me about them. I also, regardless of what I may or may not feel about demons, don't see Satanists as evil.

Also, I realize that a lot of people think that everyone who practices magcik is evil. That is kind of obvious. And when they were burning witches, since they did so because they believed that all witches were in league with Satan...that would include you, too.
All I'm asking here, is that people give a shit about other people. That they care about people getting whipped out completely. Considering this is an occult forum, I doubt very many of us would be left standing under those previous circumstances. I have no idea why I am being bitched out for caring about others or myself. Maybe if you want people to understand that Satanists aren't what people believe them to be, you should go out and try to educate people on the matter. Show them, tell them, teach them what it really means to be a Satanist. Knowledge creates a foundation for understanding. Instead of being pissed at people for noticing an injustice that doesn't directly involve you. Instead of letting all those movies where Satanists try to bring about the Apocalypse go by unchallenged. If that stuff keeps happening and you do nothing and say nothing about it.....it's your fault. Not anyone else's. Not mine. Not Hollywood's. Yours.

[TheSeeker]

I have no idea why I am being bitched out for caring about others or myself.

Um, because Satanists are notoriously self-absorbed?
You're not being bitched out by them, you're being teased by them.

I'm sorry if I've caused offense with my commentary Occultess, but the whole 'Burning Times' thing has a tendency to be waved around like it was the Wiccan Holocaust or something. There is an unbelievable degree of misunderstanding surrounding the popular notion of what happened and the historical truth of the matter.

Academically speaking, Witches and women simply do not have any historically exclusive claim to being burnt at the stake. I'm not saying it didn't happen to people --and specifically women, accused of witchcraft, it's just the net was a bit more widely cast than just Witches. You're forgetting about Homosexuals, Jews, Rom, Cathar Christians, Protestants, the list goes on; and I emphasize, not just women either.

In fact, statistically speaking, real, practicing Witches comprised a very small percentage of those people who were actually accused of Witchcraft. So really, when you think on it, non-pagan folks are actually at greater risk of being burnt at the stake than actual Witches, because real Witches tend to keep relatively quiet about their practices.

So really, if you want to be angry about something, or at someone, be angry with the Catholic Church.
They're the ones --albeit as Romans-- responsible for fucking up the Celts, the Germans, the inhabitants of the UK; and then later, all of the indigenous people in North and South America; not to mention every other country colonized by Catholic explorers, accompanied by Church representatives, over the past 1700 some odd years.

We all love you, Occultess. And for my part, I'm sorry if my original comment seemed insensitive. It's just that there is so much that is so terribly wrong with humanity right now that it seems kind of trivial and frivolous to be taking offense to something like this film.

[entropic]

Cackle, so first NOW somebody Occultess could identify with ended up as the inhuman bad guys that deserves to be killed indiscriminately? About time you realized that to a lot of ppl that is how we all look.. so next time you see satanists portrayed as maniacs running around killing ppl just for fun and trying to bring on the apocalypse, maybe you'll remember that would include you too. [eg]

I would like to know what in the hell you are talking about and I would also like to know when I somehow became the bad guy. If I have said anything on this forum that would make you or Satanists out to be bad guys...it would only have come from 1. coming from a Christian background and 2. not knowing a lot (if anything) about truer aspects of it. I'm sure that story I wrote on here about the Chain Letter, probably wouldn't be viewed with the most love..., and maybe that's due. But, again, I come from a Christian background. That is what I knew of demons at that time. Since that story, though, Stukov spoke with me a long while about demons and whatnot and, I still don't have every aspect and I still don't fully understand or know what to entirely believe, but I nonetheless have what he told me about them. I also, regardless of what I may or may not feel about demons, don't see Satanists as evil.

Also, I realize that a lot of people think that everyone who practices magcik is evil. That is kind of obvious. And when they were burning witches, since they did so because they believed that all witches were in league with Satan...that would include you, too.
All I'm asking here, is that people give a shit about other people. That they care about people getting whipped out completely. Considering this is an occult forum, I doubt very many of us would be left standing under those previous circumstances. I have no idea why I am being bitched out for caring about others or myself. Maybe if you want people to understand that Satanists aren't what people believe them to be, you should go out and try to educate people on the matter. Show them, tell them, teach them what it really means to be a Satanist. Knowledge creates a foundation for understanding. Instead of being pissed at people for noticing an injustice that doesn't directly involve you. Instead of letting all those movies where Satanists try to bring about the Apocalypse go by unchallenged. If that stuff keeps happening and you do nothing and say nothing about it.....it's your fault. Not anyone else's. Not mine. Not Hollywood's. Yours.

Hehehehe you could calm down a bit and read it again..I was talking about how a lot of ppl view anybody involved with any type of occultism, no idea why you think I was talking about you.. unless you feel it applies, that is ,)

And the Seeker is right, you are being teased for caring about a silly film while so much worse things go on in the real world. I don't think many others take this "they kill witches in a film"-thing very seriously, if you reread it with that in mind you might understand what we mean.

[Serenitydawn]

Cackle, so first NOW somebody Occultess could identify with ended up as the inhuman bad guys that deserves to be killed indiscriminately? About time you realized that to a lot of ppl that is how we all look.. so next time you see satanists portrayed as maniacs running around killing ppl just for fun and trying to bring on the apocalypse, maybe you'll remember that would include you too. [eg]

I would like to know what in the hell you are talking about and I would also like to know when I somehow became the bad guy. If I have said anything on this forum that would make you or Satanists out to be bad guys...it would only have come from 1. coming from a Christian background and 2. not knowing a lot (if anything) about truer aspects of it. I'm sure that story I wrote on here about the Chain Letter, probably wouldn't be viewed with the most love..., and maybe that's due. But, again, I come from a Christian background. That is what I knew of demons at that time. Since that story, though, Stukov spoke with me a long while about demons and whatnot and, I still don't have every aspect and I still don't fully understand or know what to entirely believe, but I nonetheless have what he told me about them. I also, regardless of what I may or may not feel about demons, don't see Satanists as evil.

Also, I realize that a lot of people think that everyone who practices magcik is evil. That is kind of obvious. And when they were burning witches, since they did so because they believed that all witches were in league with Satan...that would include you, too.
All I'm asking here, is that people give a shit about other people. That they care about people getting whipped out completely. Considering this is an occult forum, I doubt very many of us would be left standing under those previous circumstances. I have no idea why I am being bitched out for caring about others or myself. Maybe if you want people to understand that Satanists aren't what people believe them to be, you should go out and try to educate people on the matter. Show them, tell them, teach them what it really means to be a Satanist. Knowledge creates a foundation for understanding. Instead of being pissed at people for noticing an injustice that doesn't directly involve you. Instead of letting all those movies where Satanists try to bring about the Apocalypse go by unchallenged. If that stuff keeps happening and you do nothing and say nothing about it.....it's your fault. Not anyone else's. Not mine. Not Hollywood's. Yours.

What do you think you're going to accomplish by whining on an occult forum about it? Satanists/LHP tend to not care what other people think, or maybe that's just me. Personally I liked "End of Days." If we went crying about every little thing that was anti-Satanist it would take up all our time. What everyone is trying to tell you is you're being too sensitive. I mean if one movie is going to cause you this much grief, you're in for a whole lot of heart ache. The world is not a kind place.

[Jack-o-diamonds]

i find nothing wrong with occultess getting offended by this. why not? i like occultess and most of the people on this forum enough to not dismiss their feelings. (serentiy's one of my favorite people on here even dispite her cold-hearted nature )

[Serenitydawn]

i find nothing wrong with occultess getting offended by this. why not? i like occultess and most of the people on this forum enough to not dismiss their feelings. (serentiy's one of my favorite people on here even dispite her cold-hearted nature )

I am becoming a cold-hearted bitch. [eg] I see it. However part of why I said that is because I used to be just like her, very sensitive about everything. The problem with being that way is you get hurt ALL the time. Nobody understands that better than me. One of the things I'm using magick for is to strengthen and change myself, clearly it's working. [tongue]

[Korexon]

I see the points on both side of the argument as relevant.

It is in a sense disgusting to justify the genocide of the witches (in movie), but I also know my tropes and those who use them. Movies often don't work on quite the same "morality" scale as our universe does. Often, a witch in the movie really is 100% evil, like how some people run their games of Dungeons and Dragons where all the monsters are legitimately without redeeming qualities.

I think it is a good point to bring up that movies like these, over time, could affect how people see the occult. At the same time however, our society in this day and age is also considerably more apathetic about such matters. The only people such movies would affect are those who would hate occultists already without the movie to reinforce their viewpoints. [tongue]

[Occultess]

I almost feel like defending myself and explaining what I actually meant and explaining what I actually said and explaining what I was actually mad at.... but I know no one will hear me anyway (with a couple of exceptions) so,.... I give up. You've beaten me down. I won't speak my mind any longer. I will no longer have the illusion that someone might care about what I think, what I feel or even think that I might actually be making a good point worth thinking about.