Creationism vs. Evolution

[shmatka]

This is a very recent debate (February 2014) between Bill Nye (scientist) and Ken Ham (christian).
It's almost 3 hours long but I'll drop this here anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_04S0fYU7FI

They go on about their opposing views of the universe and how it began and whatnot. I found it surprising hearing a tiny reference about energy (as in energy of life), by part of Bill Ney, but no other "occult" reference was made I guess. The reason I'm posting this is 1. to share something that I enjoyed a lot btw and 2. to know what you guys think of the issue in question here and what have your astral, spiritual experiences revealed to your understanding about the very nature of the universe.

To my mind I think the topics such as science and religion are of the most utter importance, and interest. But then again I can't help feeling it ain't more than the felt presence of immediate experience (using Terence McKenna's words). Don't take this whole last sentence literally I've been up for more hours than I should anyway.

Will us humans as individuals come up to see the time of full illumination, unraveling, whatever word you could summon up? That's my question here I think

[Ramscha]

A very nice debate and the candidates were a rather good choice I guess, fit for a good discussion.

However, in my humble opinion Ken Ham killed himself in his very first statement (in the video at minute 20:14).
Here he says "nobody can observe what was there". Well, of course nobody can go back to the timepoint, but this very first event "Big Bang" or what ever it was, left a lead in the universe. This lead is measurable radiation. When you look at a star which is 4 light years away from us, you see the star in the very moment as it was 4 years ago. You "measure" its visible light radiation. You can do the same when measuring those old radiation leads which are around 13 billion years old (more or less, I would have to look for the exact number), not with your eye of course. In fact those raditions are a picture of the timepoint 13 billion years ago.

What I want to say:
Generally spoken, science can't negate the general idea of an intelligent design. There is no proof against some whatever beeing/consciousness, which might has created the cosmos or gave the energy for the very first burst. Which might also influence the behaviour of particles on such a low energy level that we can't measure it. But based on observing and evidence based scientific methods science can negate that a beardy old man 6000 years ago clapped in his hands and everything was there. Simply take an old fossil and make a C1 4-analysis, that's it as a basic proof against this idea.

To sum it up, the general idea of an intelligent design or a consciousness at the beginning can't be either negated nor actually prooven on observable and evidence based level. But what (IMHO) you can clearly falsify is the theoretical approach on a biblical based model of life.

I don't want to claim myself as a general speaker of all the "science guys" out there, what I wrote is only the impression I have from the tons of scientific literature and papers I read so far, from the coulleagues I spoke to and from my own research i did so far (mostly in the field of protein interactions). In my opinion science itself is more or less agnostic, but leaves the room free for any personal believe (as you could see in the video by this one UK guy).

Ramscha

[shmatka]

Sometimes I think the time and space I was born happened by mere chance, out of the chaos of natural order, as in I could pretty well be living at some different time right now, a different place and a different body/mind (but I'm not because I'm here [gz] ). It's not uncommon for me to feel like I've been someone else in the past, there was one moment in my life at least that strongly suggested me this, and I do think this is true to some point (past lives).

My point here is that at each incarnation, we, or something else decides which way we shall be then. (Samsara?)
This leads me to the thought that maybe all this by which we call the universe has already been written out for all of us, in some sort of way, either by God if you may or by the imense chaos that we as an organism came into being.