goetic and enochian

[insomni4c]

I know that both the goetia and enochian magic are systems of evocation, but I'm not sure which I'd rather study. I know that the goetia involves demons, while the enochian system uses angels, but what are the other differences/similarities between the two systems?

I don't really use magic for material gain of any sort, to me it's more for spiritual growth and all that. I've read about using the goetia towards this end, and I imagine that enochian magic could be used for that as well, but which system would be better suited for that type of work?

Not likely to be practicing either one anytime soon, but would like to work my way up to it.

[Asurendra]

Just as a proviso, I do not know a great deal about the Enochian system even on a technical level. I have read some books and heard some interviews and can only speak from my impressions.

It is true that Enochian deals with beings that Dee and Kelly labeled as 'angelic.' But, it seems that, universally, those who practice this system say that these entities are not angelic as we conceive of the notion but are often, at best, indifferent to humans.

To contrast this with the Goetic system, while the angels there are not all sweetness-and-light or New Age angels and not all the demons are something out of modern horror films they seem to be closer to us than the Enochian angels.

Also, I understand that a large part of the Enochain system is not just Invocation, but that is a prequel to the mental projection that is the central aspect of Enochian. One journeys to these Aethyrs and works ones way through them. There is no mental projection in the Goetic system. The closest thing would be the Pathworking system of the Tree of Life but that is not essential for working Solomon's Magick.

The Enochian system also seems more mathematical (Dee was a great mathematician) and I believe that math is the creation of Satan so it does not appeal to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGwewfo ... 6lTAP35qhA

[Rooftop]

The Enochian system also seems more mathematical (Dee was a great mathematician) and I believe that math is the creation of Satan so it does not appeal to me.

Its kind of funny, the other day after watching Cosmos, and doing my daily rituals I was having a vague reflection on the effects of math on the mind. As how some of the powerful and wealthy, will forever lust for higher and higher numbers, looking for completion in limitlessness. Also how math while defining physical laws and limits, can chain people in a cage of perception. Believing their "I" is locked with-in these same laws. Just some rambles, I may have picked up some of these insights on this site not remembering where from.

[insomni4c]

It is true that Enochian deals with beings that Dee and Kelly labeled as 'angelic.' But, it seems that, universally, those who practice this system say that these entities are not angelic as we conceive of the notion but are often, at best, indifferent to humans.

Yeah, some of what I've read makes them sound a bit less pleasant to work with than goetic demons.

Also, I understand that a large part of the Enochain system is not just Invocation, but that is a prequel to the mental projection that is the central aspect of Enochian. One journeys to these Aethyrs and works ones way through them. There is no mental projection in the Goetic system. The closest thing would be the Pathworking system of the Tree of Life but that is not essential for working Solomon's Magick.

That sounds interesting. I'll definitely have to look into that side of the enochian system, I thought that it was mostly evocation/invocation.

[Desecrated]

quoting from lesser key. (the backside of the book.)

Goetia - The ritual invocation of evil spirits and Solomons device for binding them.

Theurgia Goetia - Slightly less diabolical then the goetia, this part continues the study of spirits "partly good and partly evil"

Ars paulina - Outlines the good spirit or angels governing the hours of the day and the zodiac, purported to have been discovered by the apostle Paul after he had been snatch-up up to heaven. Includes the conjuring of the holy guardian angel"

Ars almadel - attributed to an Arab of the same name, it describes twenty beneficial spirits that govern the zodiac.

Ars notoria - collection of orations and prayers is interspersed with magical words said to have mystical properties that can impart communion with god and knowledge of divine and humans arts and science.

[insomni4c]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGwewfo ... 6lTAP35qhA

Just watched all four parts of this and am really diggin' the enochian system, I think I'm going to take a look at that book he talked about by Lon Duquette.

[Asurendra]

I'm glad that you liked it. If that interest you then definitely pursue it. Here is an except from one of his books read by Lon Milo Duquette:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vOrmTIV9qk

[insomni4c]

Thanks I enjoyed that video as well

I found a pdf of the book and have already ready through quite a bit of it haha. Hopefully whenever I wind up goin' off to college I'll be able to work with this system, I currently don't have the space or a lot of the props; black mirror, candles, etc. the rest I can use cheap homemade replicas until I can get my hands on something a little more extravagant. This seems like something that I'd want to go all out on the atmosphere for, whereas with my current work my eyes are closed most of the time so its not as big of a deal lol.