This is an offshoot of the thread "what are the goals to chaos magic"...
The conversation at this point is specifically about acquiring a spirit teacher,.. and this may be defined in different ways, preferably by those with first hand experience.
(RR I hope you don't mind me using your quote to seed discussion)
(These questions are not directed to RoseRed, but any with experience willing to share.)
manofsands wrote:
RoseRed wrote:
Not everyone is built for spirit work. Not everyone can or will pay the price that's required.
I think that once a person begins spirit work that there's really no going back.
Is this the 'Ring Pass Not'?... because intuitively it has felt like it,... and has been a line I have stood before and looked across yet have a little more than hesitation to cross.
This is a topic often tiptoed around, yet for many it is a cornerstone of their practice. Is this something than one can and is willing to talk about?
What is the price?
What are the perks?
If it is a point of no return, is it something you would still recommend to others who haven't crossed that line?
If so, what recommendations would you give to doing so?
What qualifies as a "spirit teacher"?
YOU ARE where your ATTENTION IS
there is no need to push the river... it will flow on its own
What is the price?
What are the perks?
If it is a point of no return, is it something you would still recommend to others who haven't crossed that line?
If so, what recommendations would you give to doing so?
What qualifies as a "spirit teacher"?
I have a friend who wrote, I guess you could call it an article (he likes to write), called the Cost of Avoidance and the Price of Admission. I think that could be very helpful to you right now. I emailed him. I'll let you know when I get a reply. Even if it's just to copy and paste the original.
Back to my own thoughts...
What qualifies as a spirit teacher?
A spirit or entity that has something to teach you. An invisible friend (or enemy) that guides you and works with you.
My belief is that people are either built in such a way as to interact with the spirit world in such a strong and direct manner - or they're not. Yes, there could be a spark of that gift and it can be worked with to make it greater. Other's were just built for it and cannot get away from it.
I would never recommend this to anyone. It's not my place. I would certainly NEVER recommend it to someone who simply wants it without having the inherent ability. That's just asking for a catastrophe.
What's the price? In Shamanic paths - the price is death. You return changed. Not many people are wiling to pay that. The Northern Shamanism website goes into great depth about these types of questions. Perhaps you'll find some answers there http://www.northernshamanism.org/genera ... ation.html
Death is the greatest price but there are many.
And it's not about price and perks. It's about being who and what you are. Who and what you were created and built to be. The price and perks are distractions to the Work itself. You don't go into spirit work looking for perks. It's a hard and demanding path to walk.
RoseRed wrote:I have a friend who wrote, I guess you could call it an article (he likes to write), called the Cost of Avoidance and the Price of Admission. I think that could be very helpful to you right now. I emailed him. I'll let you know when I get a reply. Even if it's just to copy and paste the original.
Sounds interesting. Hope he allows the post.
About being born with the gift/curse to interact with the spirit world... I've heard this echoed before by others. It's as if we are born with a shield/barrier... and thickness varies.
YOU ARE where your ATTENTION IS
there is no need to push the river... it will flow on its own
I don't know if it's so much a shield/barrier as it is trying to plug a round hole with a square peg.
Anyways, I heard back from my friend. He's super busy right now but said I could repost the original post.
The Price of Admission, The Cost of Avoidance
Occasionally I make mention of the fact that one is chosen to be a Shamanic practitioner and failure to accept the selection is painful and costly. In many ways seemingly a constant repetition of accepts the pathway or be painfully guided or directed until you do so. Frequently more painful than any other Pagan type pathway one may encounter, for we do not choose it as it chooses us.
One great difficulty in walking this type pathway is the fact the lines tend to blur greatly. The idea of a cost of admission very apparent upon those who walk the pathway, yet the cost of avoidance or refusal many times masked beneath or within the cost of admission. Other times the lines of separation are very clear and easily recognized though equally painful at times.
My cost of admission simply put my very life. A needle in the arm, an allergic reaction and death, simple and to the point I suppose in retrospect. Yet I truly do not know if that was the only cost of admission or simply the first payment upon my account. An account that has weighed heavily upon my shoulders at times, nearly crushing me beneath its weight and payment demands.
As I stated my initial payment my death at an early age. Yet my parents say it was but the first of many things. Was it payment pending when my parents decided to take my with them on some night only to have it prevented at the last minute by my grandmother who absolutely refused to allow me out of the house? Perhaps, for the wreck they were in found my car seat compacted beneath the passenger seat of the car, which I surely could not have survived. Perhaps it was the kind elderly Colored Man that stopped my mother and myself from entering the bank which prevented us from being caught in the hail of bullets as they came rushing out. Perhaps it was even one of my dogs who sat upon my chest so I could not move as I watched the burglar climb in through my bedroom window before launching himself out my window.
But those are all things and costs over which I had no control or true influence to change the outcome. I was simply at the fate of whatever or whoever was pulling the strings and moving my spirit and life into some desired outcome. Yes, very much influenced and manipulated by them, even guided one might say or claim. However, to those who were watching it was clearly the price of admission they were seeing unravel before me and the payments along the way as I traveled it.
Yet even as the Cost of Admission was high so to was the Cost of Avoidance. I can still feel the teeth of that dog as it ripped into the back of my leg at the kneecap. No one knew why it attacked or choose me on that day but it did. No one knew why I would be on a swing and fall beneath it and have the skin ripped from my waist to my shoulders as it swung over my prone body before they could stop it. Even as the adults debated, “Did I jump or was I pushed?” Yet it didn’t matter in the end for it was done and I had to experience the humiliation of wearing my father’s shirts and the jeers of my peer’s at school. Even the tears of my teacher when my mother removed my shirt to show her the inflamed flesh and tears and cuts upon my back as mom explained why I was wearing such over sized shirts and grimaced in pain when I had to sit back in my chair.
Thus was my youth marked. Accident Prone, an Accident waiting for a place to happen, so many names or descriptions for what was happening to try and explain what was going on. A sort of forgone conclusion that it was bound to happen and I would pay for it with my body most times, my spirit sometimes and even my mind and sense of self-worth all the time. Attempts at friendships that were fleeting as I felt alone or seemed to pay some price for having them. A loner or recluse in so many ways with nothing but my mind and nature to carry me forward into strange places.
While my peer’s ran and played I haunted lonesome woods. Why they read comic books and I read about ancient civilizations and strange occurrences and beliefs. Oh, I had close friends that tried to get me to do things and we did some though many times we got in more trouble than we avoided. I still recall the butt whipping I got when we found that black snake and garter snake on the ice and brought it back to my friends house. The anger and fury of his mother as she awoke in the middle of the night with the snake upon her belly after it had gotten out of the terrium we placed it in. I can’t forget my mother walking me home as the storm ranged about and above us only to get just about to our house when the lightning struck the transformer above our heads and across the street. A fear that sent me running blindly away from that spot where it struck as I felt the burn from it and smelt the air.
Though I realized at an early age one does not speak of things they see or hear. Well not speak of them until someone brings it up and helps you understand. Understand who and what the faces and voices are you hear call you from the edge of the woods or the shadows as the day gives way to the darkness. To understand the caress of tree or vine and the slow voice that fills your head when they do. To put on the face that hides your face from the world about you less you loose your mind or are deemed crazy. Well crazy to everyone but certain member’s of your own family that tells you of things or advice. Even people who are not of your family but feel as if they are family from their closeness to you.
But the Price of Admission and Cost of Avoidance never ends. All that changes are the ways they are applied and the potential outcomes increase in severity for failure.
Who can say what it was that made me turn and look back that night? Sixteen, perhaps seventeen at the time, drunk and walking home on the railroad tracks. Yet still what force was it that made me finally turn and see that approaching train? To evaluate in a heartbeat that I was in a ravine, to steep to climb, too far to run and the train to close to really do anything. Yet I heard the whistle and was blinded by its light but still heard a voice say go. The clock was ticking and all I could do was grab the collar of my friend and move my body in a way I never had before to toss him half way up the ravine and flip myself out of the way. Yet even as I moved I could feel the rush of air and the sucking pull beneath the engine. Act or die, no other option involved or provided. I grow so tired of those tests even as I grow older in my body and spirit. Fear is the mind killer and domain of the mindless animal.
At times one looses themselves in the testing and payment of the process. Lines blur and boundaries change with each new direction one is directed down on some road they walk. Do a thing without proper respect and the forces or peoples smack you hard. Feel a tree without though and it bites back. Cross a spot of land or pass through and gateway without proper observances and you pay with body and soul.
My nephew though I was a nut case and probably joking that night upon the mountain as the moon shown full and bright. He listened as I spoke of what I felt in the darkness and shadows as thing's unseen moved about us. As we became pawns in the game being played out upon the mountain while some general positioned its troops. Yes, he though I was crazy, right up to the moment that scream ripped the night air and neither of us could identify it. How he wanted to turn and run but my mind screamed to run is to die so I simply walked him out of there. Walked as we heard them move in the shadow and follow us down the meadow until we passed the pond as one crashed into it. But how does one speak of things that pass in the night and hide in the shadows to remain unseen?
One might wish that it would only be natural things that charge them but it is never so. The tombstone that I held in my hand and journeyed upon cost me dearly yet my guides tell me to have not done it would have cost an even greater amount. The sudden sensation that filled me and compelled me to stop and simply wander into the woods was one I answered but had I not would I have been in the accident that passed without occurrence? The rooms I have entered and feel so alone is a cost of admission I have paid far to often yet the person who I stand waiting for profits from it. Yet if I hesitate or delay and miss the appointment then the headaches, body aches and illness makes me pay dearly for not listening.
It is clear to me that the lines blur and the cost varies greatly. I have paid the price of admission in more ways than I care to reflect upon and crossed the boundary of death or neared it to many times. Even when death is not the admission price it seems high to me at times and I wonder why though many times to wonder is to challenge and that raises the cost of avoidance. When I listen and follow, whether it be to act as the talking stick or hollow bone or simply to turn left vice right my pathway seems smooth and right. Yet ignore and I do so at my own peril and cost. Lesson’s which might have passed easily have become painful and costly as I experience them later after avoiding them earlier. Painful to me in both the physical application and spiritual weighted sense of cost applied to my life.
The Price of Admission and the Cost of Avoidance how they have rolled into one over the years and continue to do so even today as they impact upon me. I have been told no other can ever know the cost of the shamanic type pathway regardless of the pathway they elect to follow. We are always hearing they choose or have chosen their pathway, our pathway is chosen for us by Spirit or the Gods / Goddesses and we have no choice in it. Other’s may stop and go or even shift focus with no cost, yet those upon the shamanic pathway never can. We move and answer the call of the Spirit that selects us or we pay through destruction of our lives when we ignore it.
While it might seem as if we have no choice in the mater we really do. We can choose to answer the call and act in Spirits name and place, as it desires us to do. Equally, we can resist and accept the pain and cost of doing so and live that way or answer the call and follow Spirit’s purpose for our births.
I read that as 'Cools troy bro' and laughed out loud at work.
But no, that was a very, very excellent post and describes it well. My own admission into my path was similarly exhausting and took many years, culminating in family disaster, multiple brushes with death, and and intense period of depression.
Looking back on it now, I see how i was being deconstructed for the work to follow. It is cool to see that echoed in his essay.
'Flores noctis sumus atque alas pandimus, In profundis tenebrarum.' Feel free to visit my blog at http://www.theluciferianrevolution.com
(admin approved link)
I really admire people like this, such strong will to survive to take action even in the darkest of times. To them I'm a coward. I broke down because I didn't had the freedom of fullfiling my desires, freedom of spekaing what happened to me to anyone but my closest friends and my partner but this is...wow. This takes guts, this takes everything a man has, a freedom from himself to be able to do it.
This post RoseRed made shook me, really. I have to try harder, and break myself free from this constraints that is me.
Is there really no way to protect ones you love without making peace with the notion that everything might get so fucked up that it's downright hard to recognize "lesser evil" in the variety of choices that one has? Or can knowledge and wisdom be the tools to deal with it and even avoid it somehow?
S - My experiences have been different but they also follow along the lines of the cost of avoiding or accepting. My death was at a much later age than his. You do return changed.
Okay, I'm nowhere near ready. [oh]
I really admire people like this, such strong will to survive to take action even in the darkest of times. To them I'm a coward. I broke down because I didn't had the freedom of fullfiling my desires, freedom of spekaing what happened to me to anyone but my closest friends and my partner but this is...wow. This takes guts, this takes everything a man has, a freedom from himself to be able to do it.
This post RoseRed made shook me, really. I have to try harder, and break myself free from this constraints that is me.
It doesn't matter if you're ready. If this is your path it'll drag you along kicking and screaming whether you like it or not.
I don't think it's freedom FROM yourself. To face death or extreme danger that carries the possibility of death is the full acceptance of Self in that moment. When you react, or choose to act, in these circumstances you are psychically demonstrating how much your life means to you. Some very deep part of you chooses to live. To stand and fight or to retreat so you may fight another day. There are times when it comes down to fight or die. And trying to kick a train's ass is not going to work.
I don't think it's about taking/using everything a man has. It's more about the making of the wo/man. Compare it to Basic Training or Boot Camp. They systematically unbuild you, they break you down so that they can rebuild you in a specific manner. You cannot create something better and stronger and more well equipped without destroying the boy (or man, woman, child, etc) in the process.
Is there really no way to protect ones you love without making peace with the notion that everything might get so fucked up that it's downright hard to recognize "lesser evil" in the variety of choices that one has? Or can knowledge and wisdom be the tools to deal with it and even avoid it somehow?
It doesn't matter if you make peace with that or not. Shit happens. Life gets fucked up. We make the best choices we can out of the choices we are given. I think that knowledge and wisdom can lessen the collateral damage but I don't think that lets us avoid everything that life has to throw at us. I think it's possible to avoid some things while other things are destined to happen.
Did you ever hear the saying 'Smooth seas do not a skilled sailor make'. A skilled sailor has learned and trained to work in the worst conditions at sea that Mother Nature has to throw at us. Smooth seas are easy to navigate. The storms of life build character and endurance.
If you think there is a price to pay, you will pay it.
Some people choose to believe that things are connected. fate, luck, destiny.
And that is a great comfort for them.
If you can adopt to that way of thinking, do it.
Desecrated wrote:If you think there is a price to pay, you will pay it.
Some people choose to believe that things are connected. fate, luck, destiny.
And that is a great comfort for them.
If you can adopt to that way of thinking, do it.
i tend to agree here. if there's a paradigm that things come at a cost, then there will be a cost.
at least in my experiences and the experiences with my friends and family who are spirit workers as well.
Thanks for getting the ok to repost your friends essay. I have 2 main questions I'd like to explore.
1st)... my question of the "Price" was more 'contract-ual' than about life style. Forgive me for using it, but it's a blaring stereotype that I can't ignore using,.. is it like a 'deal with the devil'? As in,... making some type of agreement with an entity, a bargain. It was an assumption of mine,... and innumerable magic-assumption books (like.. um, Time-Life), that one "sells their soul" or devotes themselves. My question was about if this was true, even if improperly explained. To bond with an other-planar entity... is it a kind of servitude, friendship, love affair...? I'm not trying to be disrespectful or flippant... I just (obviously) don't know. That is the 'price' I wondered. And as for perks,... is it a student teacher relationship... mainly about knowledge,... is it about power,.. having the entity perform change on the subtle to effect the gross,... or is it more about whispers throughout your life. Subtle nudges on your path. Your friends post makes it seem like it's not a contractual descision,.. but an involuntary birthright which can not but be dealt with... in which case it can't be a choice "which shouldn't be skipped"... because no 'descion' was ever actually made.
2nd)... which may render the 1st obsolete... comes from reading your friends post... and with much of what you've said about being 'born into' it. I've come across this many times. People with an 'opening'. It wasn't asked for or chosen. It wasn't worked at, though work comes in accepting and 'controlling' it to the best of ones abilities. And there are those, like myself, who have very little experience with spirits, entities and such... even if we want to, even if we try.
We stand in different territories. Almost different cultures. From my perspective (what other one can I have)... I can't help but have two explanations. Either it's all in your heads... a delusion, or I am just closed to such experiences. Please excuse my frankness... I see both as equally possible. It actually fits into my personal belief system. Much of which could be rationalization... but it's hard for me to tell from the inside. My belief system would say we all have unique lessons to learn and so we each have unique qualities to help regulate them so. I have (again) rationalized that I have no natural born psychic abilities.. wide open... because it doesn't serve my lesson,... and some do, because it does serve their lesson.
Do YOU think this is the way it is?
Do you think many with the 'birthright opening', even though maybe having accustomed to dealing with it, would have chosen to not have it?
Is there a path, as Sypheara seems to suggest, for those without the birthright opening,.. and how may they differ?
Forgive my bluntness,.. it seems the easiest way to ask.
YOU ARE where your ATTENTION IS
there is no need to push the river... it will flow on its own
1st)... my question of the "Price" was more 'contract-ual' than about life style. Forgive me for using it, but it's a blaring stereotype that I can't ignore using,.. is it like a 'deal with the devil'? As in,... making some type of agreement with an entity, a bargain. It was an assumption of mine,... and innumerable magic-assumption books (like.. um, Time-Life), that one "sells their soul" or devotes themselves. My question was about if this was true, even if improperly explained. To bond with an other-planar entity... is it a kind of servitude, friendship, love affair...? I'm not trying to be disrespectful or flippant... I just (obviously) don't know. That is the 'price' I wondered. And as for perks,... is it a student teacher relationship... mainly about knowledge,... is it about power,.. having the entity perform change on the subtle to effect the gross,... or is it more about whispers throughout your life. Subtle nudges on your path. Your friends post makes it seem like it's not a contractual descision,.. but an involuntary birthright which can not but be dealt with... in which case it can't be a choice "which shouldn't be skipped"... because no 'descion' was ever actually made.
2nd)... which may render the 1st obsolete... comes from reading your friends post... and with much of what you've said about being 'born into' it. I've come across this many times. People with an 'opening'. It wasn't asked for or chosen. It wasn't worked at, though work comes in accepting and 'controlling' it to the best of ones abilities. And there are those, like myself, who have very little experience with spirits, entities and such... even if we want to, even if we try.
Still buggered for time so sorry if this is brief.
It is similar in a way to the contract with the devil as you mention stereotype, in the respect that once the line has been crossed to accept working on the path, it becomes impossible to retrace your steps to the start. There is no going backward, only forward and out. I can't speak for others, but my own path is walked in love for Hecate, the spirit/God that I work with in full devotion to the path that she shows me and opens up to me. This is reciprocal - it is not a one way street, like any mundane relationship. There are times when I do things for Hecate I wouldn't normally want to do, and in return, she is always there as my patron and guide in love and in honour. That is as best as I can describe that connection. It is closed, and felt in the chest, and lower abdomen, which is where the energies for me seem to concentrate. Knowledge, power etc come from raising oneself in theurgy, bettering oneself - Hecate enables me access to ways to do this I would be unable to use otherwise. This is obviously a major perk, but for myself, I am more interested in being close to her than I am purely pursuing her path to the varying crowns of divinity she is able to place upon my soul for my own sake.
Mine was in a way asked for, but it was asked by my emotion, based on need, rather than a logical choice to follow her, based on how i initially confronted her through the direction of Lucifer. However, anyone who feels a calling to Hecate in my path can make a conscious choice to move onto the path. Their path may be longer, as they will need much more preparation than someone who is born with it / brought onto the path who have already been deconstructed/constructed for the task at hand, and the newcomer will likely have to go through several years of such slow internal process to begin any true work.
I personally would have changed nothing about my life. I have no regrets whatsoever as a person or the path I am on.. they have all been necessary to get me to the current state of being, regardless of the pain and problems involved including my almost dying experiences. I of course cannot speak for others.
'Flores noctis sumus atque alas pandimus, In profundis tenebrarum.' Feel free to visit my blog at http://www.theluciferianrevolution.com
(admin approved link)
I would like to start by saying that I really appreciate your frankness and straight up questions. I think a lot of direct questions get lost in the 'sugar coating' of attempting to make posts as PC and palatable. I see no reason for you to apologize - especially not for a real and honest discussion. Besides, I like blunt.
1st)... my question of the "Price" was more 'contract-ual' than about life style. Forgive me for using it, but it's a blaring stereotype that I can't ignore using,.. is it like a 'deal with the devil'? As in,... making some type of agreement with an entity, a bargain. It was an assumption of mine,... and innumerable magic-assumption books (like.. um, Time-Life), that one "sells their soul" or devotes themselves. My question was about if this was true, even if improperly explained. To bond with an other-planar entity... is it a kind of servitude, friendship, love affair...? I'm not trying to be disrespectful or flippant... I just (obviously) don't know. That is the 'price' I wondered. And as for perks,... is it a student teacher relationship... mainly about knowledge,... is it about power,.. having the entity perform change on the subtle to effect the gross,... or is it more about whispers throughout your life. Subtle nudges on your path. Your friends post makes it seem like it's not a contractual descision,.. but an involuntary birthright which can not but be dealt with... in which case it can't be a choice "which shouldn't be skipped"... because no 'descion' was ever actually made.
I'm going to attempt to break this down into parts because there are several different questions in the above quote. And I totally screwed up my quote boxes (damn!) so I'll post my part of the reply in a different color for this part because I don't have the patience to screw around with brackets and code crap).
my question of the "Price" was more 'contract-ual' than about life style. Forgive me for using it, but it's a blaring stereotype that I can't ignore using,.. is it like a 'deal with the devil'? As in,... making some type of agreement with an entity, a bargain. It was an assumption of mine,... and innumerable magic-assumption books (like.. um, Time-Life), that one "sells their soul" or devotes themselves. My question was about if this was true, even if improperly explained.
And as for perks,... is it a student teacher relationship... mainly about knowledge,... is it about power,.. having the entity perform change on the subtle to effect the gross,... or is it more about whispers throughout your life. Subtle nudges on your path.
It IS a blaring stereo-type and something that's becoming quite common. I see a lot of it in the 'witchy circles' I run in as well. And to that, the answer is yes. There are a lot of practitioners that do make those types of deals and contracts. There are a lot of spirits/entities that work that way as well. Here's a curve ball for you - what if the practitioner is the one offering the deal? How does that change the stereotype? You don't hear too much about that - at least not in a public forum.
We're talking about 2 separate things here. The type of contractual relationship that you discuss above can and does happen - a lot. It's become quite popular lately for people to look at spirit work as a legal agreement - and it can be. 'I'll leave x, y and z as an offering for a month before I ask for a favor' seems to be becoming the new norm in spirit work. That's not how I do things. Part of me wonders if that comes out of the more protestant and fundamental Christian sects. The whole 'this is a legal agreement' is very popular sermon anymore.
I think there is a world of difference between 'selling ones soul' and devoting yourself to a deity.
To bond with an other-planar entity... is it a kind of servitude, friendship, love affair...? I'm not trying to be disrespectful or flippant... I just (obviously) don't know. That is the 'price' I wondered. And
It's not a simple black or white answer. It depends. It depends on the person, the spirit/entity or the god/dess in question, if an agreement/contract was made, etc. I've seen all of the above. And you'll get a different answer depending on who you ask and what type of path they walk. You'll definitely get different answers from Chaotes, witches, magicians of any flavor, etc., and I think that's because each different path approaches these things from different angles.
For me, personally, I do not have a love affair with the Goddess. I'm not her friend. There are times that it can feel like servitude when there's work to be done and you're not particularly enthused about it. But there is another side of it and that's the part that I rarely discuss. It's kinda blowing my mind here that I'm having this same conversation on a couple different forums and in real life at the moment. I don't know why - I just know that it is. Perhaps it's something that I need to think about on deeper levels.
I'll tell you what I told a friend of mine the other day on the phone. People talk a lot about the cost and the price and what these paths take from us and how they change us. What you don't hear about is what makes this path so very worth it - what is gained from these 'relationships' - the perks, if you will. Speaking only for myself - that side of things is very private and personal. It's not for public consumption. I will only say that once this path or 'relationship' is fully accepted (and acceptance is key here) that all of the hardship and cost are worth it.
{and ewwwwwwww!!! I really don't like the red orange but I'm not going back to change it.}
And as for perks,... is it a student teacher relationship... mainly about knowledge,... is it about power,.. having the entity perform change on the subtle to effect the gross,... or is it more about whispers throughout your life. Subtle nudges on your path.
Yes and no - once again it depends on the individual, the choices they make regarding the path they follow and the specific entity. The whispers, the subtle changes - yeah, those are a part of it. The power - check out the words Theurgy and Thaumaturgy on wiki. As a witch, there are many things that I can do myself. As a Devotee or Priestess, there are other things that can be done.
Your friends post makes it seem like it's not a contractual descision,.. but an involuntary birthright which can not but be dealt with... in which case it can't be a choice "which shouldn't be skipped"... because no 'descion' was ever actually made.
You have to keep in mind that my friend is speaking solely of one type of path. I've never considered it a birthright - whether voluntary or involuntary. And make no mistake - there is a decision. That decision must be made before that path can be accepted. Some people choose to never walk these shaded paths.
2nd)... which may render the 1st obsolete... comes from reading your friends post... and with much of what you've said about being 'born into' it. I've come across this many times. People with an 'opening'. It wasn't asked for or chosen. It wasn't worked at, though work comes in accepting and 'controlling' it to the best of ones abilities. And there are those, like myself, who have very little experience with spirits, entities and such... even if we want to, even if we try
I always find it ironic that people who don't walk this path really seem to want to and most, when they come to the head of the trail, fight against it kicking and screaming.
I came to this part of my path later in my life. I didn't start here. I have no idea where it's going or what up around the next bend.
I also think that most everyone has a spark of this gift. Sometimes, it's just a matter of finding it within yourself or an unplanned experience that awakens it. People are drawn to it for a reason.
We stand in different territories. Almost different cultures. From my perspective (what other one can I have)... I can't help but have two explanations. Either it's all in your heads... a delusion, or I am just closed to such experiences. Please excuse my frankness... I see both as equally possible. It actually fits into my personal belief system. Much of which could be rationalization... but it's hard for me to tell from the inside. My belief system would say we all have unique lessons to learn and so we each have unique qualities to help regulate them so. I have (again) rationalized that I have no natural born psychic abilities.. wide open... because it doesn't serve my lesson,... and some do, because it does serve their lesson.
Yeah. I love how you phrased 'almost different cultures' and talked about perspective. I think that's one of the most accurate explanations I've heard of yet.
It could be all in our heads. That's the reason why I love verification so much. It lets you know that you're not nuts. If I do a tarot reading for someone I don't know and yet nail their past and am accurate about how the future plays out - that's verification. It's taken a lot of years to get to the point that I'm at now. The people I discuss these things with - I tell them 'either you believe me or you think I belong in the looney bin'.
I had a discussion several months ago with someone who believes but has not had direct experience. He was talking about the ancient pictures and drawings found in cave walls and such. Someone, somewhere saw it and marked it for remembrance. He saw the drawings and believed that there are people that see the world this way. I told him that I could've been the one drawing the pictures because that's how I see the world.
Please, please, PLEASE stop saying that you have no natural born psychic abilities. Our thought become our reality. Do you really want to limit yourself in that manner?
You may believe me when I tell you that there are days I wonder if it's a gift or a curse. If it's a gift - can it be returned?
I have only had the experience of a spirit teacher in the confines of psychedelic use, however the experiences I have had have given me the impossible knowledge and accurate life guidance that has made me a believer in such supernatural things in the first place.
This is an incredibly interesting conversation....
A real discussion for those who are on the path....
Time to tell my story...
I was never religious, but always spiritual. I had a lot of experiences in my very early years that science never seemed to be able to explain. I sought out religion, but that didn't make sense either.
To me it was pretty obvious everyone was talking about the same thing. It seemed wrong to choose one paradigm over the other. So I used what made sense at the time.
I remember being a baby and being so overwhelmed with this experience we call life. I remember being so excited that I could control my arm and fingers, my legs and toes, I could make sounds and look around at whatever I wanted. Then my mom walked into the room and a sadness overtook me, an incredible sadness. For I couldn't see what she saw, I couldn't hear her thoughts and she couldn't hear mine. It was flooring. I began to whale. She came over, picked me up and soothed me. At that point I thought I was special, supreme. I thought I was the only one on earth that could have these experiences and I was overcome with a fear that I was all alone. This was the beginning of my Forgetting.
The beginning of my Remembering probably came in high school. I had a girlfriend, it was serious, it lasted 2 years before our innocence and ignorance set us up for failure. We had very similar perspectives on the world and when I lost her I again, was all alone. The depression borderlined suicide and I looked to religion for help. Jesus, Bhudda, Zen, Chaos Magick, Austin Osman Spare, Crowley. Eventually I found hermetics, but by then I was well on the path. I had self diagnosed and cured my depression and jealousy, but I knew I was incomplete.
At this point I had already dabbled in psychedelics, meditation, hypnosis, chanting, music, you name it. I was able to succeed with every single one. However to me it was all the same.
fibonaci sequence
hero's journey
the passing of a moment
the passing of a day
The Tarot
The 7 steps of Alchemy
You name it, to me it was all the same; reality growing as it always does in fractal form, no step like the last, but every path the same...
I decided the Alchemists were right. That if my spirit/soul/mind/whatever was just another product of the universe and nature then I too would have to follow the steps.
At that point in time discipline was a keyword for me. It was something I lacked. I tried working out, but couldn't keep a decent schedule. I tried meditating on schedule, but couldn't maintain that. I knew I was missing another tool needed to get to the next step.
I got fired. At that point I was 22, making 50k/yr with just a high school diploma. I knew this was my chance, this was my opportunity for the adventure I craved. The chance to prove to myself that I had what it took, this was my chance to truly "wander".
I was about to empty my bank account and hit the road when a friend suggested the Army. I was in the recruiters office the next day.
Going in I imagined this was going to be my descent into the underworld and for the next 4 months of basic training I was lost in the sea of my subconscious. Always acting as if I had no identity for fear of the Drill Sergeants attention and refusing to masturbate produced some of the most vivid, symbolicly powerful dreams I have ever had. I remember there was one where I was surrounded by gods, the greek pantheon perhaps, couldn't tell. But I knew I was an outsider and so did they. One made a comment, but then another, gorgeous goddess, stated that she enjoyed my presence. She thought I was cute and invited me to take a dip in her pool. During that time I had my first wet dream.
It might be important to note that my sexual energy has always been incredibly high. I was masturbating before I knew what it was, long before puberty and long before any semen ever shot forth. The ranch on which I grew up always had a healthy pair of red tailed hawks patrolling it (kundalini energy). Going through puberty and still sometimes to this day when I would come into the presence of a female I found incredibly attractive I would be overwhelmed to the point where I could barely speak. Urges would wash over me in waves. The experience was always terrifying. I would freeze up, refuse to move or speak for fear that the urges inside would come bursting out... I felt like I had lost all control. I hated women for this reason for a very long time.
Anyways. The Army lasted 4 years, but I signed up for every test I could.
As an paratrooper, as soon as I was sent to my unit in Germany we deployed to Afghanistan within a month. The fighting was intense. There were moments where I thought that I could have been in a war movie. I lost close friends and killed a man myself.
But the tests weren't over.
After the deployment I was tested in German Sniper School. Probably the most prestigious sniper school houses in the world. I was the first American to go into their books as passing the course. After that the Army promoted me, made me team leader, then squad leader. Before the second deployment they sent me to Warrior Leadership Course and then gave me 4 of the best soldiers we had to create a sniper section.
My second round in Afghanistan as the unit's sniper section leader I was attached to whomever needed me at the time. I worked with more platoons than I can count, a few different companies and two SOCOM units. The fighting was less intense, but the risks I was being forced to take were 3x greater than ever before and I had 4 soldiers with no combat experience depending on my every word, my every move.
In the end I realized this wasn't a big enough test. It was a test alright, and a damn good one, but not exactly the test I was seeking. So I created my own.
Now I've never been good at learning other languages. I almost failed spanish in high school, but I knew at the end of the second deployment I would be given 30 days of leave and then my contract would have 2 more months left on it.
I decided I was finally going to go to Japan. It had always been a childhood dream of mine, but I knew absolutely 0 Japanese. I decided to study up over deployment and make the trip all by myself.
I had no idea what I was going to do in Japan for 30 days, so I looked up hiking trails and found the Kohechi. The Kohechi trail's length differs on who you ask, but my GPS clocked 120KM from start to finish. Which is about 30KM greater than what most signs and sites say. I did the entire trail all by myself, never seing another soul.
I landed in Osaka, had a hotel reserved for the first 3 nights and the last 3 nights.
Culture shock is real. When I landed I freaked out. I thought I was going to die or end up in a very bad place. I couldn't read anything, understand anything, and I was too afraid to try my Japanese. I couldn't even figure out how to feed myself.
Long story short. When left with nothing but my own devices to survive in an alien world, I found solace on the Kohechi trail, in nature. The entire trip it felt like something was watching over me or communicating with me. Telling me when to make camp, when to keep going. I knew whether or not it would rain, even though the clouds were daring.
By the end of the trip I had more friends than I could count and was speaking Japanese almost fluently. I never even bothered with English. It was a life changing experience.
Now I'm out and in school attempting to get a degree in International Business. It seems to me that no matter what paradigm you follow, if you wish to build upon yourself it requires some hard work.
In other worlds, experienced through psychedelics. I would undergo the same journey. When attempting to communicate with whatever it is that's created us, seeking answers to whatever questions I may of had, there was always a requirement. Perhaps not a sacrifice, but a cost of admission perhaps. One of my greatest breakthroughs was when I attempted to explore the fractal of reality to its source. Now its important to remember that fractals are infinite in either direction, with infinite possibilities each way, however at the point of singularity anything from one side cannot be brought into the other.
To me this was an experience of "passing through the eye of the needle" or "Walking the razors edge"
I was in a trance, following the fractal to its source, when the path began to narrow greatly.
This wasn't the first time I had attempted this, but during the first time I realized I was carrying some baggage around. I also don't think I was incredibly healthy at that time either.
But anyways, this time as I flowed down the path towards the point of singularity I began to feel the drag of the path closing in around me. It was in my legs at first, so I reorganized them and attempted to obtain perfect symmetry between the two. As I began to flow even deeper I continued this process up my entire body, through my heart and into my mind. Once I was able to sync my left and right brains together I passed through that singularity into the void.
Lets just say it was better than sex. The love and understanding and connectedness I had with my creator then was so incredibly powerful I never wanted to return. However, it was there that my creator made a request. One I hope I understand and am currently pursuing to fulfill, but nonetheless it was a definite order to return to the current state of affairs so I could do some real work.
The prices I've had to pay to get here are more than I can count, however, when I look at the fractal of my life I don't see how I could have gotten here any other way. Looking back now it was the only way.
The biggest price I'm having to pay right now is due to my perspective on the world and the language I choose to express myself (I speak metaphorically way too much), I have to be very protective of who I let close.
When I attempt connection to the divine I become incredibly vulnerable. I need to be all alone or surrounded by only my closest of friends.
I also have to be very careful of whom I reach out to. My intuition is pretty spot on, but I've touched some people and I see how they'll never look at me the same way ever again. I scare most. One roommate moved to another state to get away from me 2 months after moving to Colorado to "start a new life".
Women tend to fall in love with me.... FAST!
Its hard to explain to them that A) I'm not gay and B) Yes, I love you... like a sister.
Most still think I'm gay.
I've learned to keep my mouth shut.
Hopefully I'm done testing my body.
As for the point of no return... I can see that being real... Once you see the patterns/parallels/symbols and how they map out throughout your entire existence they are impossible to ignore.
I'm developing a magickal technique now to attempt to take advantage of the fractal nature of reality. I think Chaos was close... but not exactly spot on.
The prices I've had to pay to get here are more than I can count, however, when I look at the fractal of my life I don't see how I could have gotten here any other way. Looking back now it was the only way.
Would you mind explaining further what you mean when you use the phrase 'the fractal of my life'?
I have some ideas of what you mean but instead of assuming I figured I'd just ask.
manofsands wrote:
Is there a path, as Sypheara seems to suggest, for those without the birthright opening,
Will.
Awesome answer brother. Different paths require different costs and offer different rewards. Having the raw will to endure the journey is one of the most important variables. To my mind it is the single most important.
The prices I've had to pay to get here are more than I can count, however, when I look at the fractal of my life I don't see how I could have gotten here any other way. Looking back now it was the only way.
Would you mind explaining further what you mean when you use the phrase 'the fractal of my life'?
I have some ideas of what you mean but instead of assuming I figured I'd just ask.
Everything I've observed moves forward through time growing and changing, death is simply the lack of existence, but from death (nonexistence) unlimited possibilities are brought forward through life, the question then becomes who's creating.
Then you realize you're creating, but if we pay closer attention it becomes a co-creation. A relationship of sorts.
I digress...
The point is everything has a pattern (frequency) that is entirely unique unto itself, but moves forward in fractal motion, fibonacci sequence, 7 steps of alchemy, the fools journey, the hero's journey, ect.
I could choose to look at just my body as a fractal, or myself as a person who exists in time. A being with the memories and experience of my 27 years of life. Who knows, maybe more?
And if perhaps I am something even beyond my memories (soul? spirit? god stuff?) then I like to think that that part of myself is also on this journey. A growing fractal, attempting to be beautiful.
