Please lend your expertise and assistance

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Overflowed_Buffer

I didn't mean to pick apart your grammer, I do not have perfect grammer either. What I meant was...well I meant what I said, about how someone could believe in one thing, but at the same time be scared of something that comlpetely contradicts their beliefs.

I do appreciate your advice.

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Original post: flyinhighagain

For the love of mike, overflowed!!!!

You just need the to proceed. your fear of failing is crippling you. the people who have responded may or may not be experienced - they may just be deluded geeks who are mages in their own minds only. who cares? You have already decided this is your best option to obtain what you want so proceed
pick an entity and do an evocation. - simple - keep a record of everything you do so that should you can learn what works and what does not - if something unfortunate happens - so what????? according to your posts something bad is gonna happen anyway. you got nothing to lose brother -

You say you can banish
ask your self the following:
can you raise & direct energy?
Can you focus your will/concentration on one thing/desire for extended periods of time withour interruption?
can you visualize in detail?
have you developed your ability to see & hear on the astral plane?

More than likely if you had the above abilities you would not be asking for help. even if you can't do all these things you could still succeed - but you gotta stop being afraid of failing and get started brother.

I say reach deep inside yourself and prove us all wrong - have the courage to begin - find your warrior spirit - victory & success or death & dissolution. of course if you really find your warrior spirit you will face this problem without resorting to magic - you will accept what you know is the right thing to do in your heart and do it. this is where the divine speaks to us - it is the voice of absolute good council which we all must strive to listen to most of the time this will be in direct conflict with our ego needs/wants - this is why you are currently in such conflict - you are not listening to what you know is the right but difficult thing to do.

good luck my friend

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: palindroem

OK, no real problem . . . I just didn't want the focus to be on my poorly defined addition of "or nothing at all".

Its possible to not believe in karma proper or even to believe in a "law of return" but to still feel that we own a responsibility to those things we include ourselves in . . . even tangently.
When a person feels reponsible, even if its not with the universal positive/negative point system of karma, fate, or . . . wiccan threefold system, it add a burden we have to carry.

I don't remember where I read these:
"A master carries some of the burden of his students karma"
"Light a candle, cast a shadow" (I do know where that one is from).

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Original post: Ekron

OB you will not succeed unless you believe in yourself.

You may indeed not get a direct answer to your original post. I have not had dealings with any of the spirits mentioned in B-PME so I cannot give you firm directions. Just go with one from your list that you may feel some empathy with. Offer it prayer and meditate on its sigil and hopefully an initial connection will be made. If you feel happy with this then proceed with the evocation. You may get 'burnt', hopefully not too much; I did, but I eventually got through it.

I wish you well.

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Original post: Kinjo

[QUOTE=fiat_lux_777]93

You asked for helpful comments - MOTA's comments are perhaps the most helpful you will receive. Why? Because it would seem he may be trying to stop you from making a mistake. Goetic evocation is not some simple, light-hearted, feel-good ceremony. The dangers are real. [/QUOTE]
I just started to read this thread up to fiat_lux word above intriques me to post a question.
I agree with MOTA and fiat_lux_777, that this art should not be taken lightly. I live in Asia where lot's of superstitions where occasionally I can see some mysterious and unusual death on the paper such as a headless man found who's blood had been sucked dry by an angry demon (with the picture of corpse headless body being hauled on ambulance by the mass - I see no blood/hollow) And these we're trying to prepare to call is the lord of demons. How much scarier he can be if only his minions can cause such terror and death that way?

I've been in OF for some months now. I've read the dangers of evocations, advices and other "probabilities", however, I haven't read much about the actual "accidents" reports that happens from actual survivors (or they don't survive at all to tell?) - well, there's only one post that I can remember from pre-hacked OF, and that is not too bad.

Now that MOTA had mentioned it, I'm asking if you would like to share with the rest of us newbs of the real dangers, so we newbs can better prepare ourselves, because one way or another for each of our individual reasons, some of us newbs gonna go for it sooner or later.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Kinjo

[QUOTE=Overflowed_Buffer]You are right, and I apologize. I am simply very frustrated that few people have answered in a way that encourages.[/QUOTE]
Overflowed_Buffer, only "predators" will give you what you want in the way you wanted it. In my humble experience, we don't get what we want other than what we deserves. Just August last year I was in your position with my mundane needs and URGE for instant solution. Well, that only makes it worst believe me. In my little experience, when I learn to accept it, embrace it and then welcome it as "a gift in disquise" then it will start to be and feel better.
I bought a audio program called the "Sedona Method" and it helps a million to release negative energies. I hope it also will help you.

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Original post: fiat_lux_777

[QUOTE=Kinjo]Now that MOTA had mentioned it, I'm asking if you would like to share with the rest of us newbs of the real dangers, so we newbs can better prepare ourselves, because one way or another for each of our individual reasons, some of us newbs gonna go for it sooner or later.[/QUOTE]
93

IMO the dangers of evocation are rarely physical, but psychological. We don't often hear of some poor soul being rent in half by demonic entities....but we *do* hear of people exhibiting psychosis, depression and other mental diifculties as a result of dabbling in Goetia (or similar).

Often this is the fault of the practitioner - the ritual serves to magnify pre-existing psychological imbalances. Know Thyself. Take time to build strong foundations - without it, the edifice is bound to crumble when it comes up against enough force.

The main problems I (personally) have encountered in this line of "play" are symptoms/reactions such as depression and ill-controlled agression. Not much, you might say - but keep in mind that these two emotions are the primary causes of physical actions such as suicide and physical violence. The emotional issues can lead the the physical responses (albeit rarely) - at the very least they make you feel pretty awful and somewhat paranoid. However, if one "knows themself" adequately, they can recognise these aberrations early and take appropriate steps to counter problems before they become overwhelming. IMO and experience only, of course.

93 93/93

Todd

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Overflowed_Buffer

I went to the stores today, and I bought a few things. The main purchase was an amount of fabric to constitute my circle for these evocation(s). Hopefully they will be temporary and I will be able to use one of the extra rooms in my house for evocations, bu t I am happy with a fabric one right now.

Anyway, I think I will reneg on my other selections...don't ask why. However, I have decided on Leraje. If he personally can't help me, he has a few minions backing him up who I have no doubt can. Either way, I will find out in the very near future. I will post the results when I have them. I don't know when I will have an opportunity to preform the ritual, but most likely I will have PLENTY of time this weekend.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Arcanus Mysticus Spiritus

well i have glanced over this thread,..

I have not much experience in invoking...i fully support master of the abyss and others.
Why evoke entities when one already has the potential within?

I dont know what your situation is,but i bet it is unlike mine,and less of a problem than i have.
I cant fully disclose my situation,but i will sum it up>
a group of entities after my group,they have succeeded in killing one member.Now they are trying to get us all.with his death,the path we were on has changed,therefore throwing me into chaos,with all the visions of the future i have had.BF is being hunted.(by what or whom i will not share)I was told of a war in heaven..by angels...still dont know about that...
many on OF i believe think i am nuts..LOL....maybe i am??...

so is it worse than that?

btw,nothing shocks me anymore...(i was previlidged enough to be given a dream where i was shown how to kill someone through metaphysical/energy means...i was not to tell anyone..and i wont..not even my bf or mother knows)..

So i am sure you will get through it.Cant you find some other way than invoking spirits/goetia whatever to help?...

If you dont want your probs public,email me if you can..i may be able to find a solution for you.(If i can find loopholes[universal loopholes]-I'm the 'Gal!!!)

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Original post: flyinhighagain

YES YES YES HE'S FINNNNNNNNLY GONA DO IT !!!!!!!!!!!


Remember you may not see anything or feel anything during the working - this doesn't mean you were not successful. put a time limit on what you are asking for - if you do not see results try again & again & again. while you are waiting for results try to focus on something else until you see the result you wish for. don't work against yourself by
worry about your succeeding

May you have success

Flyinhighagain

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Original post: Overflowed_Buffer

Arcanus Mysticus Spiritus: I am not going to get into an argument about whose situation is worse, frankly I don't care about anything but this right now.

Flyinhighagain: Thanks for the advice. I'm just waiting for an opening in my schedule and I'll be up and running. I went out and have a really good staff and even a rod, followed ALMOST to perfection from the grimoire of...honorious maybe? No sword yet, but I /am/ going to the Renaissance Festival Sunday...they have good swords there. I also have a willow wand, which I won't be using for the channeling part, only when commanding the spirit as willow might not be good for evoking a demonic creature, lol. Thanks for the advice everyone. Keep posting, this thread has become very educational in more than one way.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: MaeveQ

Dont worry about the tools much. You may need them but you are more important. Give more importance to yourself. Rest well. Be prepared mentally and physically. Energize yourself.

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Original post: Nero

I agree with MaeveQ, tools do not make the magician. IMO outside of a few things they are nothing more than window dressing. Don't get me wrong they can help alot but they will not make or break you.

Desire and intent are far more important. Confidence is the MOST important thing you need. If you have any doubt about your abilities to control these forces then you will be in a world of hurt. Spirits can smell the fear and doubt in you and exploit it. All I can say is enflame your self and I wish you the best. Good luck.

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Original post: Master of the Abyss

[QUOTE=Kinjo]Now that MOTA had mentioned it, I'm asking if you would like to share with the rest of us newbs of the real dangers, so we newbs can better prepare ourselves, because one way or another for each of our individual reasons, some of us newbs gonna go for it sooner or later.[/QUOTE]
First on, I agree with everything fiat_lux said. Again.

Then, I think the most usual form of damage, which depending on its severity may or may not be recognized as such, is setback in the process of self-development. Demon work empowers any imbalances and psychological problems you might have, which can sometimes be useful (because it gives clear targets to work on, and a motivation to do so), but will often simply be annoying.

In more severe cases, a lack of conscious control over oneself is typical. Specific symptoms depend on disposition (and character, apparently - practitioners will often encounter recurring themes here that need not necessarily apply to others). Some get depressed, some get paranoid, some become sociopathic, etc. The symptoms are somewhat slight compared to true pathological states of their kinds, but are enough to make the person seem completely changed even to him/herself. Any lingering psychological disorders are very likely to erupt. Many also become involuntary psychic vampires.

These symptoms are what I refer to as lack of centering, i.e. lack of a strong magical personality. However, you can also get lack of grounding, i.e. lingering magical influences that you failed to banish. These will usually discharge in the form of spontaneous magical effects (and since we are talking about demons, this normally means nasty stuff such as synchronistic accidents), nightmares, and averse reactions from one's surroundings.

DISCLAIMER: the above is not some sort of full diagnosis sheet that can determine what is a side-effect of demon work and what is not. Each case is different. The above generalizations are just what makes sense for the (albeit relatively large) number of such incidents I happen to know.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: morphine

Everytime one cant listen to the dangers of an evocation.

Not to ignore anybody's experience or talent or expertise or dedication.

Here is where it gets tricky.

The problem doesnt have any other solution.Hold on,it really doesnt have any solution.

A solution is what one would like to achieve that gives him/her the justification.

Two choices are left:

Give yourself time and practise.A good alternative but not practically feasible in the period of time a person has.

Forget about the problem and look at the mirror and enjoy your funny face cos you thought you might find the solution to the problem.In short you committed the mistake of accepting yourself.

Everyone has a domain of their own speciality.Lets admit that "black magick" or a goetic evocation is the primary attraction of most of the occult seekers.

Reason-it gives the possibility to inflict pain in a form that is not attainable by money,martial arts or even conspiracy sometimes.We are talkin about hurting people here.

Now when somebody seeks a goetic evocation from a seeker or maybe wants to try himself,he gets lots of warnings and danger signs in good faith from others which should be well respected.

The only problem,these danger signs and warnings are as much as one million questions on LBRP from newbies.So before an advice comes,by reading just first two lines of it,one knows what lies underneath it.

I feel that the experienced magicians should also weigh the fact that a person interested in a goetic evocation might want to do it one day himself.Its just the matter of time.
As Mota puts it,it takes years of training and practise.Ofcourse it does,and that is the problem.A person can do it,but what about the problem right now?...:-)

Most of the "experienced" magus would give warnings like prophets but if asked to take an initiative in the goetic evocation would simply chicken out.Probably they know more,and have seen more.

The experienced and so forth talented magicians should also consider the fact that
everyone doesnt carry a romantic fantasy to see or feel a demon.Its just one practical solution which he might be interested in practising later himself.

One might have enormous talent to be an evocator.One might be,but being humble and understanding is what is more demanding out of a human rather than pure arrogance
of " you know shit about it come on kid".

It might be true because experience involves lots of trouble and demands ouf of a pure perfectionist with an excellent technique and dedication.A mark of maturity but to suggest that the other person is infatuated with demons goes above my head.

Most of the magicians I have seen here,they are so talented and they have earned it by hard work.Its their own effort and dedication,but lets admit this---everyone likes to take risks,everyone does it too,ofcourse, every thing demands a price.

I read somewhere " Life is a mirror.give respect and you will get it back"-now thatz a dedication to you overflowed buffer... :-)


Fair enough for me.

Morphine

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Original post: Overflowed_Buffer

I would agree, from what I /have/ experienced, that tools are not necessary, but do help. That's why I have whatever tools I could get without online ordering, as that would take a long time. I still have to engrave my staff...I'm just hoping I still have some wood carving skills left as I don't want to woodburn. I also have to figure out how to make a circle on the fabric with paint...I don't have a compas that big, and where is a person going to find a large circular piece of paper/cardboard? I'm really going to have to brainstorm here. I know it doesn't have to be a perfect circle, but if I relied on my freehand I would end up with an oval at BEST, but probably more of an ameoba shape.

Morphine: I'm not sure what your point was, but it was still a good post. I agree with a lot of stuff that you said...still don't know what you were getting at though ;-).

Edit: If this is too off topic just disregard it, but does anyone have any preference as to what grimoire to use for spirits to evoke? I have just stumbled upon one that I had never even looked at before, and was just wondering if anyone is exclusively evoking arbatel (sic?), or goetic, or maybe even Franz Bardon PME?

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: palindroem

To make a circle . . .
Take a pin, some string or thread, and a permenent marker

Pin one end of the thread to the middle of the area where you want the circle. Tie the marker to the other end. Pull the string/marker out to the end and run it around, it should make a damn near perfect circle.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Overflowed_Buffer

Ahhhh, I never thought of that...Makes sense..thank you very much. Yes, I am blonde.

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Original post: palindroem

To make this a little fancier . . . cut a small circle of cardboard. attach the non-marker end to the middle of the little circle. Attach the little circle to the center of where you want your big circle. Now run the marker around at the length of the string . . . another perfect circle.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: palindroem

Blonde . . . well, I wont hold it against you. I don't even know where you live and the last time I held "it" against a blonde . . . I got a black eye and arrested.

ha ha

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Original post: Grab

[QUOTE=Master of the Abyss]setback in the process of self-development...

empowers any imbalances and psychological problems you might have...

depressed, some get paranoid, some become sociopathic, etc...

lingering magical influences that you failed to banish

spontaneous magical effects (and since we are talking about demons, this normally means nasty stuff such as synchronistic accidents), nightmares, and averse reactions from one's surroundings...
[/QUOTE]
Not only was that very interesting indeed because it was well formulated, but it also sounds suspiciously familiar.

Personally, I've never really had anything really bad happen, not even nightmares really. Sometimes I've noticed subtle increases in negative treats of my psyche. I won't go into exactly which ones, and it depends also on the demons in question. However, these changes seem to fade out after a few days. Any opinions there?

What I wonder now is whether this can be altogether avoided by having the perfected circle and triangle, and doing the perfect banishings? Or is the mere fact that you are face-to-face with a demon enough to cause these effects?

/Grab

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Original post: Master of the Abyss

As Mota puts it,it takes years of training and practise.

Did I say years? I know a single case of a man who was into magic for just a few months and did manage a successful demonic evocation. Alright, in that couple of months, he did more practice on a single day than many occultists manage in a month, but still it definitely does not have to take years.

The experienced and so forth talented magicians should also consider the fact that everyone doesnt carry a romantic fantasy to see or feel a demon.Its just one practical solution which he might be interested in practising later himself.

Demon summoning is not practical. It is ridiculously costly in time, effort, and material tools, immensely dangerous, and carries with itself a heap of mythology that - if you are taking the practical perspective - has no purpose other than waste your time. For 95% of intents goetic magic is typically employed for, sigil magic is the superior choice. (The other 5% mostly involve magical combat with people you don't have a good magical link to, and in-depth divination.) In fact, most forms of magic are. Magic is a technology that sees constant development, and goetic evocation is medieval in more than one sense of the word.

So if the sober choice of the most practical method can be ruled out, what do you have left? Why, emotional appeal, of course. Summoning demons has a romantic air to it that, say, summoning spirits of mercury simply lacks. (And that is justified - the drama of salomonic ritual is quite enjoyable;)). The vast majority of people who say they want to summon demons have zero or next-to-zero magical experience, issues the size of Texas, and a tendency to say things like "And if I go to hell for this..." So yes, I do think this vast majority is playing out a romantic fantasy at the expense of people who actually mean it.

EDIT:

[quote=""Grab""]Sometimes I've noticed subtle increases in negative treats of my psyche. I won't go into exactly which ones, and it depends also on the demons in question. However, these changes seem to fade out after a few days. Any opinions there?[/quote]I guess those few days have seen you practice your banishing rituals and/or meditate. By regaining your grounding and centering, you are negating these influences.

You also get grounded and centered, in a limited way, by living your daily life. Grounding comes with physical work, sex, and heavy food (esp. meat). Centering mostly comes from interaction with other people. However, these methods will not help in more severe cases. The common idea that simply living normally and not believing in magic protects from it is a myth, and IMHO probably comes from the widespread inability to perform magic that goes beyond the levels everyday life can protect you from.

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Original post: Grab

I guess those few days have seen you practice your banishing rituals and/or meditate. By regaining your grounding and centering, you are negating these influences.

In the most severe cases, my daily practice arrived at a full stop. However...

You also get grounded and centered, in a limited way, by living your daily life.

...when the "bad feeling" decreased enough, the banishing practice was taken up again, although not daily at first.

A wicked complication emerges when one does a new session with another demon, without having become completely grounded/centered from the first one yet.

/Grab